Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

eig.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 267 posts

Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#141

Post by _ktx2 »

alistairSH wrote: post #122
jossclimb wrote: post #12

I have been remote for 11 years now and have two children 9 and 12. I can't imagine what it would have been like if I had spent the week out commuting between the hours of 7am to 7pm, we would have lost out on so much bonding time with their daddy being an integral part of their life. I managed to be highly productive, build a career, yet be there for bath times, tucking into bed, school plays / sports days, nursing…

I can't imagine what it would have been like if I had spent the week out commuting between the hours of 7am to 7pm FWIW, I commuted through most of my son's childhood. I still made it home for those things you list. But, it did take optimizing house location/commute, etc. I certainly wasn't gone 7am-7pm. Even with 60 min of driving and 60 min for lunch, that's an 10 hour day.

> But, it did take optimizing house location/commute, etc

To spell the quiet part out loud here, what you're describing is an extreme privilege in a world where homes near tech campuses often go for $1M+. New fathers aren't going to have a down payment for even $600k+. Tech at this point starts as a rich persons game which is why so many tech workers intermarry with other wealthy people. It takes two or a trust fund to do what you're talking about early on, unless you want to rent in a place where rents are highly inflated. At that point, you're choosing between a family and any shade of financial freedom.

Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#142

Post by miroljub »

gedy wrote: post #120
tyoma wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do. But not like its sound proof. And sometimes your partner just needs help. And other times your kids stop by and ask for something. You can say you’re “at work” as much as you want, but you’re still at home. And yes, I am sure once everyone is at school for a big chunk of the day it all gets much easier.

> But not like its sound proof. And sometimes your partner just needs help. And other times your kids stop by and ask for something. You can say you’re “at work” as much as you want, but you’re still at home. Sounds exactly like issues at our open offices too?

The difference is, at the office it's part of your job, at home it is not. Helping your teammates is part of your job, helping your wife is not. And I bet you don't clock out to make a quick 5-minute break to help your wife 10 times a day ;)

Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#143

Post by w0m »

gedy wrote: post #120
tyoma wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do. But not like its sound proof. And sometimes your partner just needs help. And other times your kids stop by and ask for something. You can say you’re “at work” as much as you want, but you’re still at home. And yes, I am sure once everyone is at school for a big chunk of the day it all gets much easier.

> But not like its sound proof. And sometimes your partner just needs help. And other times your kids stop by and ask for something. You can say you’re “at work” as much as you want, but you’re still at home. Sounds exactly like issues at our open offices too?

but that's working on work stuff, not personal stuff. You could make the 'but not my work' argument, but that's disingenuous I think.

Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#144

Post by francisofascii »

antisthenes wrote: post #126
Tade0 wrote: post #79

Almost every parent of 4+ that I know follows the same pattern: they live in the middle of buttfuck nowhere in a detached house in a low cost of living area and work remotely, while their spouse is a homemaker. Our whole team is remote so toddlers sometimes participate in standups and that is fine - they lose interest after a few minutes anyway. I can't imagine going somewhere every day and not participating in my ch…

> Our whole team is remote so toddlers sometimes participate in standups and that is fine - they lose interest after a few minutes anyway. The toddlers or the team? Standups should only be a few minutes anyway.

In theory, sure. But it reality, 20-30 minutes. Especially if you have non-developers as part of the standup. The first few minutes are eaten up by pleasantries.

Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#145

Post by tyoma »

scruple wrote: post #119
tyoma wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do. But not like its sound proof. And sometimes your partner just needs help. And other times your kids stop by and ask for something. You can say you’re “at work” as much as you want, but you’re still at home. And yes, I am sure once everyone is at school for a big chunk of the day it all gets much easier.

Exactly my experience and what I came here to say. Locking myself in my home office during work hours isn't a solution to this problem. I have to use the bathroom, get water, coffee, eat lunch, take walks, etc. The kids see me and want to play, want to hang out, want to tell me about everything that happened since the last time they saw me. They might come to the office door and start pounding on it, yelling out for…

Thank you! Reading WFH threads always contradicts my lived experience. I am happy to hear that someone else has the same problem and I am not alone.

Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#146

Post by Draiken »

tyoma wrote: post #136
Draiken wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure maybe having kids around might sometimes affect your productivity, but how is that any different than being in an open office? Phone calls, people talking around you, movement everywhere, unwanted taps on your shoulder and a lot more. Unless your job provides you with a closed office where you can actually focus on, it's pretty much the same as having kids around. When I worked in an office I remember the most p…

I’ve worked at an open office and its nothing alike, at least with young kids. There’s screaming and crying, if your help is needed, it needs to be right now , kids wont take no for an answer, etc. When I was in an open office, people generally kept a reasonable background volume my brain could tune out. As adults, they respected my answers the first time, and certainly no one screamed at me.

My kids didn't scream at me more regularly than coworkers tapped me in the shoulder to talk about random shit or ask questions that could be answered with a single search.

Of course everyone's experience will vary, which kind of invalidates the idea that all of this is because of WFH. It depends on your kids, your home/office, your work office, teammates, commute time and so on.

My point is that blanket statements like "WFH with kids ruins productivity" don't accurately portray the reality and helps bad managers justify unjustifiable RTO policies with anecdotes.

I know you didn't use a blanket statement though. But when I read your comment I could almost feel a bad manager reading it and using it to ruin more people's lives. Sorry about the rant.

Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#147

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

jossclimb wrote: post #12

I have been remote for 11 years now and have two children 9 and 12. I can't imagine what it would have been like if I had spent the week out commuting between the hours of 7am to 7pm, we would have lost out on so much bonding time with their daddy being an integral part of their life. I managed to be highly productive, build a career, yet be there for bath times, tucking into bed, school plays / sports days, nursing…

My remote started with the pandemic, but experience has been very similar. In a sense, it is very sad how much parents are forced to give up, when they are in a non-remote position ( doubly so if it is artificial non-remote designation ).

I was always a very detached individual, but the experience changed me and my perspective a lot. The 2 weeks most men get for post birth bonding ( and some don't even have that ) is heartbreaking.

I am not suggesting we move to EU level craziness where a person takes a year off to care for a child, but I am sure there is some middle ground.. and from where I sit, WFH allows just that.

Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#149

Post by daok »

Draiken wrote: post #128
tyoma wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve also been working from home and very glad to have been there for my kids when they are young, but highly productive are not two words I’d use to describe the experience. I guess my time management and prioritization skill have improved by necessity, but the lack of uninterrupted quiet time is real.

Sure maybe having kids around might sometimes affect your productivity, but how is that any different than being in an open office? Phone calls, people talking around you, movement everywhere, unwanted taps on your shoulder and a lot more. Unless your job provides you with a closed office where you can actually focus on, it's pretty much the same as having kids around. When I worked in an office I remember the most p…

Kids are way more disruptive than open space. Depending of the age they are dependent for simple thing like getting a cup of water. Then the list grow fast to get snack or to go to the bathroom. Then it continues by being bored after 10 minutes. I would say that any kid under 10 years old require some supervision. Of course, some children are more independent and trustworthy. However, 8 hours of work with a child or 8 hours in an open space is very different for most parent.

Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#150

Post by manuelabeledo »

lynx23 wrote: post #71
flangola7 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that's not acceptable is micromanaging bosses and the attitude that business is more important than family.

If family is more important then your paycheck, why dont you resign? Why should someone without a family invest more at work just because you consider work a secondary thing?

> If family is more important then your paycheck, why dont you resign?

It is.

> Why should someone without a family invest more at work just because you consider work a secondary thing?

This is a weird take.

Do you get mad at your coworkers when they take time off?

Post reply on HN