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Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

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Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#131

Post by lotsofpulp »

brabel wrote: post #68
VBprogrammer wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been remote since our youngest turned 1 year old due to the pandemic. I honestly can't imagine what life would have been like otherwise. The year I spent before that I was lucky to see her at all during a day. She wasn't awake before I left (except for the inevitable screaming during the night) and we kept her up late so I could feed her a bottle before she went to bed. I think it's a huge win for equality and f…

> I think it's a huge win for equality and family life Hm, where I live, both parents take roughly the same amount of parent leave (around 240 working days each in total - minimum 90 days for each) from work regardless of whether they work at home or anything else. That's what I would call equality.

My kids were able to breastfeed until 2 years old and ween at their pace because my wife works from home.

The whole concept of women pumping and then someone else feeding their baby defrosted frozen breastmilk because they have to work is crazy. Women should have at least 1 year with their child, and if that means men need to be off for a year too, then so be it.

Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#132

Post by j45 »

defrost wrote: post #102
j45 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of trying to discredit the experience of others or women could it not be a “yes, and trades” instead of a “yes, but”?

The comment above doesn't read as a "yes, but" questioning the experiences of workers, it reads as questioning the assertion that hands on work that cannot be performed telecommuting from home is "mostly carried out by women". It's a fair question; while I recognise the role of women as care givers, etc it's also true that in many countries trades (mechanics, electricians, plumbers, carpenters, buildrs, tilers, etc)…

It's up to you to decide if "mostly carried out by" is all, or not.

There's no question men and women do hard jobs.

Women are disproportionately a shadow labour force at home too that would make most people not used to it fall apart.

That's fair it doesn't and I brought attention to there being a choice to say "yes, and"

Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#133

Post by treis »

drekipus wrote: post #5

I had my firstborn from my new fully WFH job, in the middle/tailend of the pandemic. It has totally been a blast having the little one around. I work in my living area which is open plan into my kitchen, so I get to see her learning how to eat out of the corner of my eyes when I'm in work meetings, etc. My personal suggestion: if you're working from home with children, don't try and seperate and go into the study; do…

Newborns/infants are way easier than toddlers. Game changes once they get mobile and destructive. My wife is down two laptops due to our little guy.

Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#134

Post by the_gipsy »

Thlom wrote: post #111
the_gipsy wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First off, there is a huge difference in being 100% available and not outputting work. They are not exclusive. I WFH with people with babies and kids and they absolutely exceed expectations. Second, people in office can be just as unavailable or unproductive as from home. There are a million ways to slack off or be intermittently absent. Third, it's a matter of gender equality too. If the childcare is split 50% then…

Kids should go to child care so both mother and father are free to work.

"free to work" oh, the irony.

Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#135

Post by em-bee »

Thlom wrote: post #117
em-bee wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if they are old enough maybe. less than 3 years they should be at home with their parents. in austria/germany kindergarten and school traditionally is half day. afternoon childcare is considered special and very expensive, if you can even find a place. finding a space in kindergarten can be a problem too. many parents want to send their children to childcare but they simply can't

In Norway most kids start kindergarten when they are 1-2 years old, it's not really a problem for most. Probably much more fun than hanging with their mother all day. Some have shorter days the first year(s) depending on parents work schedule etc. Kindergarten is heavily subsidised by the state, so that makes it affordable for everyone.

Probably much more fun than hanging with their mother all day

for a 2 year old? hardly.

more research on this topic is needed. i found at least one german report that claims that there are significant risk factors for early daycare that negatively affect the development of children and their relationship to the parents:

bad quality daycare, lack of motherly sensitivity, spending more than 20 hours a week in daycare, daycare before 2 years of age.

that report also claims that daycare generally affects the socioemotional competence of children, and that 25% of children that received full day daycare by age of 4 show significant problematic behavior even if the daycare is of good quality.

the quality of parental care is the strongest factor for the development of social and cognitive development.

another article claims that kindergarten does not have a positive effect before age 4.

on the other hand another article claims that children that receive some (but it doesn't say how much) external care in the first two years of life are less likely to later have psychological illnesses, and children that start kindergarten only at 4 are twice as likely to get sick. (personally i doubt that, but there it is, research is conflicting, and the jury is still out). but that same article also claims that things have improved over time. before the 90s, early daycare had a negative effect while after the effect became positive.

i am not saying that there is only one truth, but as a supporter of the attachment theory of parenting, i tend to side with the idea of keeping kids at home early, and only introducing daycare very gradually and i can also confirm some of this with my own experience.

Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#136

Post by tyoma »

Draiken wrote: post #128
tyoma wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve also been working from home and very glad to have been there for my kids when they are young, but highly productive are not two words I’d use to describe the experience. I guess my time management and prioritization skill have improved by necessity, but the lack of uninterrupted quiet time is real.

Sure maybe having kids around might sometimes affect your productivity, but how is that any different than being in an open office? Phone calls, people talking around you, movement everywhere, unwanted taps on your shoulder and a lot more. Unless your job provides you with a closed office where you can actually focus on, it's pretty much the same as having kids around. When I worked in an office I remember the most p…

I’ve worked at an open office and its nothing alike, at least with young kids.

There’s screaming and crying, if your help is needed, it needs to be right now, kids wont take no for an answer, etc.

When I was in an open office, people generally kept a reasonable background volume my brain could tune out. As adults, they respected my answers the first time, and certainly no one screamed at me.

Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#137

Post by photonbeam »

j45 wrote: post #78
tyoma wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve also been working from home and very glad to have been there for my kids when they are young, but highly productive are not two words I’d use to describe the experience. I guess my time management and prioritization skill have improved by necessity, but the lack of uninterrupted quiet time is real.

Add someone navigating this after an overly productive decade of remote work, but not one that is healthy or sustainable to be well rounded to access the next level of growth in all fronts, I’m beginning to wonder if having a separate space on the property might be something to try out. Those pre made work pods look more and more interesting.

A lot of them were surprisingly expensive, I really hope someone like Home Depot comes out with something really cheap like their sheds but with some cheap interior

Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#138

Post by Robotbeat »

I’m a big remote work skeptic, but this is persuasive to me.

Part of the reason I don’t remote work is because I’m unable to focus very well on remote work in a crowded household with small children… I would inevitably be doing more parenting when I should be working. But while that might be bad for work, it’s good for family… (my commute is only 15 minutes, so a lot of the other arguments here don’t really apply. It takes a couple minutes just to log in into the VPN…)

Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#140

Post by sgtnoodle »

tyoma wrote: post #104
rco8786 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but the lack of uninterrupted quiet time is real. Do you have dedicated office space in your home? This is crucial. Additionally, once the kids go to school the house gets very, very quiet for most of the day.

I do. But not like its sound proof. And sometimes your partner just needs help. And other times your kids stop by and ask for something. You can say you’re “at work” as much as you want, but you’re still at home. And yes, I am sure once everyone is at school for a big chunk of the day it all gets much easier.

Indeed. We have a 5 month old and a 4 year old, and my wife broke her leg with a compound spiral fracture two months ago then subsequently developed vertigo and hearing loss from unexplainable inner ear damage. I can't say preschool has helped us out much, either. After the whole family became violently ill from a preschool norovirus, I've now been plagued with an upper respiratory infection going on 20 days or so. I've lost and regained my voice twice, and of course I've had to conduct highly technical collaborative remote interviews every day this week. I do have a dedicated office space with a door I can close, and statistically there's still a 1 in 3 chance of an interview candidate overhearing my daughter shouting a critical analysis of the color, consistency and scent of her bowel movements.

This week I've just given up on sleep completely, and accepted that I have already gone insane. I got 2 hours last night. After managing to pass out from exhaustion between coughing fits at 3AM, I was called back from the Ethereal Realm to this land of the damned by a mysteriously sweet voice in the dark, asking me for "a piece of cheese", and "bread, the round kind like for feeding a duck". To aid in my quest, I was hastily thrown the plastic base of a holy cheese grater from the land of Ikea; no more questions. Since then I've fed a baby about 5 oz of formula and coughed up about 2 oz of mucus. Like my daughter, it's been sort of fun to observe the change in consistency, color and flavor from day to day.

Overall things have been going well, though. No complaints. There's some clear benefits to operating at my physical and mental limit. I've lost some weight from all the involuntary vomiting and appetite loss. I abandoned my futile attempt to be delicate dealing with our difficult and jaded next door neighbors, and am instead stomping on egg shells calling them out on their unintentional but very rude behavior. I also feel like I've had a lot of really creative and productive, impactful breakthroughs at work lately. My only real disappointment is that I have absolutely no energy left to pick up my Steam Deck, and when I force myself to anyway, I get simulation sickness after 5 minutes.

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