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Pausing AI Developments Isn't Enough. We Need to Shut It All Down

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Re: Pausing AI Developments Isn't Enough. We Need to Shut It All Down

#91
post #35

I feel like if I actually believed that the death of all biological life was imminent and that the only way to forestall it was to bomb data centers, I'd spend a lot more time planning how to bomb data centers and a lot less time curating Shoggoth memes on my web forum. On the other hand, if I were more concerned with self-aggrandizement, writing doomsaying thinkpieces for Time is exactly what I'd spend my time on.

Unilateral terrorism seems like a great way to get the rest of the planet to unite against you, which is why he advocates for data-center bombing only in circumstances where earth has already coordinated to establish an international order banning them.

Re: Pausing AI Developments Isn't Enough. We Need to Shut It All Down

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OT, but it's a pet peeve: > but it wasn't long before they could The total amount of nuclear weapons ever built is laughably inadequate for the task of ending life on earth. They would not end human life either, and even ending human civilization (as in, agriculture and organized society) is off by many orders of magnitude. Nuclear war would be horrible, but the actual impact got massively overinflated, largely becau…

The initial fission stage is the "hard" part of a nuke, but the subsequent fusion stages are much easier to scale up. Arbitrarily large nuclear bombs are theoretically "easy" to make by chaining increasingly large fusion stages one after the other, as they aren't limited by expensive fissile material. https://blog.nuclearsecrecy.com/2012/09/12/in-search-of-a-bi... Hence scientists extrapolated nukes really could end…

It would be really, really hard to kill the bacteria and Archaeans that we've since found hiding deep underground. They're long way down and would barely notice.

Re: Pausing AI Developments Isn't Enough. We Need to Shut It All Down

#93
post #74

>If intelligence says that a country outside the agreement is building a GPU cluster, be less scared of a shooting conflict between nations than of the moratorium being violated; be willing to destroy a rogue datacenter by airstrike. I highly suspect if the US government would airstrike a datacenter located in NATO or any other major allies. Apocalypticism is nothing new; People believed that nuclear weapons will des…

Nuclear weapons haven't even been around for a century yet and we've already had multiple extremely close calls that were adverted by sheer luck, in one case a Russian officer openly disobeying standing orders. The Russian invasion of Ukraine still has a non-trival risk it will eventually turn nuclear.

Looking at nukes and trying to use them as an example of our ability to control existentially dangerous technology is mind boggling myopic.

Re: Pausing AI Developments Isn't Enough. We Need to Shut It All Down

#94
post #12

The cat is out of the box. You really think eg China will also pause this? Myopic thinking: the country that will have the most powerful AI first will be the leader in everything. >> If the policy starts with the U.S., then China needs to see that the U.S. is not seeking an advantage but rather trying to prevent a horrifically dangerous technology which can have no true owner and which will kill everyone in the U.S.…

As the saying goes, the confetti has left the cannon. Pausing the development of AI for 6 months is an insurmountable task; shutting it down altogether is as close to impossible as you can get. Even if we assume our geopolitical rivals somehow sign an AI non proliferation pact, all it takes is one rogue billionaire or a criminal organisation with deep pockets. Yes, it might not be as fast, but they will get there eve…

I actually disagree with you because world leaders want to "stay in power", if you convinced them enough that the only way to do this is for you not to have an AGI, I think they'd make sure you don't get an AGI, amongst other things.

Re: Pausing AI Developments Isn't Enough. We Need to Shut It All Down

#95
post #31

I guess we are all concerned about LLMs being used by nefarious users (for propaganda, manipulation, scams, …). But I’m curious, hacker news, how many of you are concerned (like Eliezer) that LLMs lead to strong AI and the AI itself (rather than its users) endangering humanity?

Yeah, this concerns me. If someone believes they can upper bound LLM capabilities, I think the onus is on them to explain where and why scaling laws break down. Regardless, it seems like we'll get to AGI relatively soon (say, within a century), whether that's using transformers and LLMs or not.

Re: Pausing AI Developments Isn't Enough. We Need to Shut It All Down

#96

A literal cartoon villain monologue: "If intelligence says that a country outside the agreement is building a GPU cluster, be less scared of a shooting conflict between nations than of the moratorium being violated; be willing to destroy a rogue datacenter by airstrike." "Make it explicit in international diplomacy that preventing AI extinction scenarios is considered a priority above preventing a full nuclear exchan…

Wouldn't a villain encourage reckless AI capability advancement, not try to stop it?

Re: Pausing AI Developments Isn't Enough. We Need to Shut It All Down

#97
post #68

I've known about Eliezer Yudkowsky's ideas for a long time, but here is something I've never seen: what actually he has produced, in term of scientific output? I've read plenty of his lesswrong's writing on the idea of rationalist, as well as plenty more on the AI alignment side (obviously including the famous basilisk). But can someone please point me to some results from the last 2 decades of his works? Either from…

I asked GPT v4 your question:

> What has Eliezer Yudkowsky produced, in terms of scientific output? I've read plenty of his lesswrong's writing on the idea of rationalist, as well as plenty more on the AI alignment side (obviously including the famous basilisk). Can you point me to some results from the last 2 decades of his works? Either from him or his institute. That helps to calibrate what his expectation for the AI safety field.

And this was the answer it wrote - I've prefaced each paragraph with "GPT-4>" to indicate the source. It is not fact-checked, and indeed, it has at least one error: The paper GPT-4 claimed to introduce "the concept of Logical Induction" actually introduces "logical induction criterion" and speaks about evaluating algorithms for Logical Induction. Close, but wrong. But overall it is an interesting response - just not a carefully considered one by how we currently would describe logical reasoning, etc.

GPT-4> Eliezer Yudkowsky is a well-known researcher, writer, and advocate for AI safety and rationality. He has contributed significantly to the fields of AI alignment and rational thinking through his work at the Machine Intelligence Research Institute (MIRI), formerly known as the Singularity Institute for Artificial Intelligence (SIAI), and through his writings on LessWrong. Here are some notable outputs from Yudkowsky and MIRI:

GPT-4> 1. Coherent Extrapolated Volition (CEV): Yudkowsky introduced the concept of CEV as a way to describe the ideal values and preferences of humanity that an AI should pursue. The CEV aims to find the values that would emerge if humans had the opportunity to reflect on their goals and beliefs more thoroughly and coherently.

GPT-4> 2. Timeless Decision Theory (TDT): Yudkowsky developed TDT as an alternative to standard decision theories such as Causal Decision Theory (CDT) and Evidential Decision Theory (EDT). TDT aims to better address problems like Newcomb's Problem and counterfactual mugging by considering the logical implications of an agent's decision, rather than just the causal consequences.

GPT-4> 3. Research on Logical Induction: MIRI researchers, including Scott Garrabrant and others, published a paper in 2016 that introduced the concept of logical induction. This work is an attempt to formalize the process of reasoning under logical uncertainty and updating beliefs about mathematical statements.

GPT-4> 4. Yudkowsky's sequence of essays on rationality: Yudkowsky has written extensively on various topics related to rationality, including epistemic rationality, instrumental rationality, and biases. These writings are accessible on LessWrong and have been compiled into the book "Rationality: From AI to Zombies."

GPT-4> 5. AI safety research: MIRI has produced a range of research on AI safety topics, including value alignment, decision theory, and robustness. Much of this work has been foundational in shaping the AI alignment research landscape.

GPT-4> While Yudkowsky's work might not have the same breadth of peer-reviewed publications as some other AI researchers, his contributions have been influential in the AI alignment and rationality communities. His ideas have helped shape the ongoing discussion about AI safety and the development of effective strategies for managing advanced AI systems.

Re: Pausing AI Developments Isn't Enough. We Need to Shut It All Down

#98
post #68

I've known about Eliezer Yudkowsky's ideas for a long time, but here is something I've never seen: what actually he has produced, in term of scientific output? I've read plenty of his lesswrong's writing on the idea of rationalist, as well as plenty more on the AI alignment side (obviously including the famous basilisk). But can someone please point me to some results from the last 2 decades of his works? Either from…

for scientific output you can look to MIRI. that is eliezer's contribution. the other response has listed some papers.

it's worth mentioning that he has said that he believes MIRI has failed to meaningfully make progress with alignment (beyond finding some dead ends).

Re: Pausing AI Developments Isn't Enough. We Need to Shut It All Down

#99
I think everyone should look at this chart of productivity increases since World War II:

https://www.bls.gov/productivity/images/pfei.png

Notice how productivity increases averaged 1.5%/year since 2007--in a period of massive increases in computer capabilities vs 2.8%/year in the 1947-1973 era.

Thus I am very doubtful the AI will have all these massive effects.

Re: Pausing AI Developments Isn't Enough. We Need to Shut It All Down

#100
post #31

I guess we are all concerned about LLMs being used by nefarious users (for propaganda, manipulation, scams, …). But I’m curious, hacker news, how many of you are concerned (like Eliezer) that LLMs lead to strong AI and the AI itself (rather than its users) endangering humanity?

I'm definitely concerned. As bad as humanity has been for many of the other species on the planet, an AI that's smarter than us and optimizing for something that doesn't quite include the continued of existence of humanity has the potential to be far, far worse, on a much shorter timescale.

I find this one of Yudkowsky's arguments very convincing: imagine you have people trying to build the first operating system from scratch. They believe that computer security is easy and mock the few people who say it might be hard, never having encountered a skilled attacker. What are the chances they build a secure OS on the first try? That's the same chance that companies currently doing AI research have of their first superintelligent AI be aligned with humanity.

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