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Rotten meat may have been a staple of Stone Age diets

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Re: Rotten meat may have been a staple of Stone Age diets

#131

Post by exclusiv »

chimpanzee wrote: post #110
kybernetyk wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If they had access to primitive weaponry, why would they waste energy running when they could instead ambush? This is the main point why I don't believe in the endurance running hypothesis. Humans are lazy. Why would they opt to run for days over just waiting at the local watering hole for prey?

Plenty of humans “run for days” for pure enjoyment. Not to say the ancients would be so foolish when energy expenditure is a concern. But run for days, for a purpose, with companions, releasing endorphins throughout, and then topping that off with a nice, rewarding meal full of fat and protein? I don’t see why not.

True but I watched some documentary where some westerner went to spend time with a tribe.

The tribe thought it was absolutely hilarious that he would get up early and just go run for fun.

Re: Rotten meat may have been a staple of Stone Age diets

#132

Post by jojobas »

exfatloss wrote: post #25

The book The Fat of the Land by Vilhjalmur Stefansson ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilhjalmur_Stefansson ) describes how the Eskimos he lived with ate rotten fish all the time. It was a delicacy for them. Kind of like we eat "rotten/spoiled" blue cheese and dry-aged beef.

Not just fish and not just Eskimo. Northern tribes rot whole deer, seal and even whale.

Re: Rotten meat may have been a staple of Stone Age diets

#133

Post by exclusiv »

bernawil wrote: post #121
mklepaczewski wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On short distances all dogs outpace humans. After an hour of running most dogs will just quit. On several occasions I had very hard time convincing various dogs to get off the ground after an 8-10km run.

my point is, can a human reasonably stay within viewing distance from a dog that is running away from him? the dog can just run at top speed, gain some distance, take a little rest and maintain that distance at a comfortable pace. I used to believe in the endurance hunting thing until I realized playing with my dog it didn't make sense. They DO get tired, but they take a 1 minute break and it's like they are back squ…

Pretty sure this guy can catch your dog even if your dog was on cocaine, remained focus, and had someone feeding it water periodically:

[1] https://www.irunfar.com/aleksandr-sorokin-smashes-24-hour-wo...

Re: Rotten meat may have been a staple of Stone Age diets

#134

Post by bufferout »

mzimbres wrote: post #73

So why rotten meat smells terrible and a steak delicious? Why would we evolve that perception of something that nutritious and which could prevent me from starving. Why my nose keeps telling me to keep away from rotten meant?

vegetarian for 20 years and cooking beef literally smells like dog poop to my nose. So yeah, maybe just a matter of what you're used to?

Re: Rotten meat may have been a staple of Stone Age diets

#135

Post by runnerup »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #17
leereeves wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dogs don't seem to mind [spoiled meat] I've recently seen proof of that. A dead horse was left on a trail I frequently hike, and I saw dogs eating it a week later. I don't even want to imagine how awful that meat was after sitting in the sun for a week.

That said, all the pets I've had throw up way more than I do. I think we're ignoring the very real possibility that ancient people were constantly living with some level of gastrointestinal problems.

Animals also don't have the social stigma of vomiting that humans do. Sometimes they'll vomit for basically no reason at all, because there's a low "cost" to doing it.

One time my dog and cat both ate some human food which was perfectly fine for them, but the cat didn't like the flavor. So the cat vomited. The dog looked at the cat, looked at the food, looked at the cat, and then vomited also.

Then the dog finished all the food and was fine.

Re: Rotten meat may have been a staple of Stone Age diets

#136

Post by runnerup »

wincy wrote: post #13
jrootabega wrote: post #4

My gut refuses to believe it, but my brain understands that this is probably a lot like cheese -- blue cheese in particular. If you've only had fresh milk, letting it curdle and mold before eating it would probably be unthinkable. Same for fresh cabbage vs. kimchi or sauerkraut.

If you ever get a chance to go to a really nice steakhouse, and eat a 45-day or 60-day dry aged steak, do so. It’s one of the funkiest most delicious things I’ve ever eaten, like a combo of the best blue cheese and the best steak I’ve ever had.

I've eaten a lot of 55-day dry aged steak and it always upsets my stomach a little bit for a day or two. I can consistently count on diarrhea for a bit. Tastes great, though.

Too much Wagyu will do something similar, but its not really the same -- in that case its just mostly too much fat/oil. Even a small amount of 30-60 day dry-aged steak will do it to me and it feels different.

Re: Rotten meat may have been a staple of Stone Age diets

#137

Post by strken »

bernawil wrote: post #82
ravenstine wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why subscribe to the endurance running hypothesis, though? There are no contemporary examples of humans hunting that way, and hominids were already making tools by the time they had developed to subsist on meat. The endurance/persistence hypothesis doesn't even make sense without tools like spears, knives, or arrows, because humans don't kill their prey by biting into them. If they had access to primitive weaponry, w…

this somehow always comes up when anybody mentions human sweating or how good we are walking large distances. But whoever thinks it's feasible to hunt any animal worth its calories just jogging behind it has never chased a playful dog. A furry mammal with no sweat glands has way more endurance than any fit man and let's not talk about top speed. You'd never catch it.

Anyone who's tried to go for a significant walk or run with a dog on a hot day can attest that they don't handle distances and heats humans can. My brother once went on a 24km run in summer with our Labrador x Kelpie and had to stop 5km in and slowly walk back, because the otherwise very fit dog couldn't cope with the heat.

I have no idea whether that's an adaptation to endurance hunting or just to normal ambush hunting over long distances in the hot and humid African wet season, but it's pretty undeniable that dogs don't have more long-distance endurance than a fit man on a hot day.

Re: Rotten meat may have been a staple of Stone Age diets

#138

Post by dv_dt »

fwlr wrote: post #96

I recall reading, a long time ago, of a person who was eating just meat and only meat for his diet. He was struggling for a while with it, until he intentionally allowed a small amount of meat to rot for a bit, consumed that, and from then on he did much better on that diet. The principle I believe was in play was that the rotting meat contained a lot of bacteria that was very good at breaking down that meat (it woul…

I consume microbiotically rotted grape juice and sometimes cheese.

Re: Rotten meat may have been a staple of Stone Age diets

#139

Post by PhasmaFelis »

bernawil wrote: post #119
pegasus wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not so: https://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/27/health/27well.html "But when it comes to long distances, humans can outrun almost any animal. Because we cool by sweating rather than panting, we can stay cool at speeds and distances that would overheat other animals. On a hot day, the two scientists wrote, a human could even outrun a horse in a 26.2-mile marathon."

> distances that would overheat other animals what other animals? I used the dog example because it fits perfectly here: they don't sweat yet it's impossible to catch up to them if they are running away. Even if they overheat they don't just drop dead, they slow down to a human's walking pace. And what about running animals that do sweat like horses? makes no sense. What makes more sense is to approach from multiple…

> what other animals?

As far as I'm aware, every land animal on Earth. (In hot weather. It's very different in the cold. Might also be different if it's very humid enough, so sweating doesn't work.)

> I used the dog example because it fits perfectly here: they don't sweat yet it's impossible to catch up to them if they are running away. Even if they overheat they don't just drop dead, they slow down to a human's walking pace.

For an hour or two, sure. Now try doing that for twelve solid hours, on a hot day in the open. The dog will collapse from heatstroke long before a fit, practiced human has to bow out.

Re: Rotten meat may have been a staple of Stone Age diets

#140

Post by throwayyy479087 »

runnerup wrote: post #135
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That said, all the pets I've had throw up way more than I do. I think we're ignoring the very real possibility that ancient people were constantly living with some level of gastrointestinal problems.

Animals also don't have the social stigma of vomiting that humans do. Sometimes they'll vomit for basically no reason at all, because there's a low "cost" to doing it. One time my dog and cat both ate some human food which was perfectly fine for them, but the cat didn't like the flavor. So the cat vomited. The dog looked at the cat, looked at the food, looked at the cat, and then vomited also. Then the dog finished a…

I wish we'd vomit more. It's a fantastic reflex and, compared to lower GI food poisoning, very preferable.
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