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Pausing AI Developments Isn't Enough. We Need to Shut It All Down

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Re: Pausing AI Developments Isn't Enough. We Need to Shut It All Down

#11

The cat is out of the box. You really think eg China will also pause this? Myopic thinking: the country that will have the most powerful AI first will be the leader in everything. >> If the policy starts with the U.S., then China needs to see that the U.S. is not seeking an advantage but rather trying to prevent a horrifically dangerous technology which can have no true owner and which will kill everyone in the U.S.…

> Imagine being so naive you belive this could ever happen.

Agreed, not a rational scenario

> Also: imagine the year is 1900. You are saying that steam power and electricity is causing way too many changes way too fast so they put a moratorium on it until the year 2500.

However, the risk scenarios are indeed real. We have quite a dilemma on our hands.

Re: Pausing AI Developments Isn't Enough. We Need to Shut It All Down

#12

The cat is out of the box. You really think eg China will also pause this? Myopic thinking: the country that will have the most powerful AI first will be the leader in everything. >> If the policy starts with the U.S., then China needs to see that the U.S. is not seeking an advantage but rather trying to prevent a horrifically dangerous technology which can have no true owner and which will kill everyone in the U.S.…

As the saying goes, the confetti has left the cannon. Pausing the development of AI for 6 months is an insurmountable task; shutting it down altogether is as close to impossible as you can get. Even if we assume our geopolitical rivals somehow sign an AI non proliferation pact, all it takes is one rogue billionaire or a criminal organisation with deep pockets. Yes, it might not be as fast, but they will get there eventually. This is the Manhattan Project of our era - whatever the outcome might be.

Re: Pausing AI Developments Isn't Enough. We Need to Shut It All Down

#13

The cat is out of the box. You really think eg China will also pause this? Myopic thinking: the country that will have the most powerful AI first will be the leader in everything. >> If the policy starts with the U.S., then China needs to see that the U.S. is not seeking an advantage but rather trying to prevent a horrifically dangerous technology which can have no true owner and which will kill everyone in the U.S.…

> Also: imagine the year is 1900. You are saying that steam power and electricity is causing way too many changes way too fast so they put a moratorium on it until the year 2500.

Great analogy. About a decade later, the world was fighting World War I on the back of the technological advances of the turn of the century. It was war on a scale never seen before. Literally orders of magnitude deadlier, bigger, more transformational and explosive. The word would never be the same.

This time, should we expect another war?

I'm not saying we should pause—it makes no sense, to your point. Instead, I'm just saying: brace. I like to think we (and our organic matter relatives) are hard to kill. Or at least to completely eradicate... so we will be around, or some proxy for us.

Time to replay the Mass Effect trilogy

Re: Pausing AI Developments Isn't Enough. We Need to Shut It All Down

#14
The Butlerian Jihad is officially no longer science fiction. Man may not be replaced.

“The Letter” was obviously self serving drivel from people who want time to get in the game. Google does care about AI existential risk, they care about beating Microsoft by any means possible, including declaring a moratorium, but continuing to make progress behind the scenes.

This guy is the real deal. I can imagine he would personally take a sledgehammer to every last PS5 and 4090. The scale of what he is advocating is so enormous and painful that it has approximately 0% chance of happening. And if he is right, we will have trained a super intelligence and unleashed it on the world before we even realize what we have done. It strongly reminds me of the black hole concerns from flipping on the Large Hadron Collider.

I doubt super intelligent AGI is possible anyway. If it were, it would be the solution to the Fermi paradox and all matter in our galaxy would be paperclips already. The Anthropic Principle saves the day.

Re: Pausing AI Developments Isn't Enough. We Need to Shut It All Down

#15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Woz I don’t know about, Elon has publicly stated he is launching a conpetitor with a different ideological bent, so he just wants time to catch up.

It's AI it doesn't have ideology other than to maximize the number of paperclips, or maybe to enslave humanity. Everyone knows this.

[deleted]

Re: Pausing AI Developments Isn't Enough. We Need to Shut It All Down

#16
I think we are trying to solve impossible scenarios and it simply is not productive.

Alignment will be impossible. It is based on a premise that is a paradox itself. Furthermore, even if it were possible, there will be a hostile AI built on purpose because humanity is foolish enough to do it. Think military applications. I've written in detail about this topic FYI - https://dakara.substack.com/p/ai-singularity-the-hubris-trap

Stopping AI is also impossible. Nobody is going to agree to give up when somebody else out there will take the risk for potential advantage.

It seems we probably should start thinking more about defensive AI, as the above conditions don't seem resolvable. Of course, defensive AI might be futile as well. It is quite the dilemma.

Re: Pausing AI Developments Isn't Enough. We Need to Shut It All Down

#17

The Butlerian Jihad is officially no longer science fiction. Man may not be replaced. “The Letter” was obviously self serving drivel from people who want time to get in the game. Google does care about AI existential risk, they care about beating Microsoft by any means possible, including declaring a moratorium, but continuing to make progress behind the scenes. This guy is the real deal. I can imagine he would perso…

> If it were, it would be the solution to the Fermi paradox and all matter in our galaxy would be paperclips already.

The proof is in the pudding. The jury is still out. Maybe not enough time has elapsed since the big bang, at least not on this galaxy or in our observable corner of the universe.

Re: Pausing AI Developments Isn't Enough. We Need to Shut It All Down

#18

The cat is out of the box. You really think eg China will also pause this? Myopic thinking: the country that will have the most powerful AI first will be the leader in everything. >> If the policy starts with the U.S., then China needs to see that the U.S. is not seeking an advantage but rather trying to prevent a horrifically dangerous technology which can have no true owner and which will kill everyone in the U.S.…

I dunno, the end goal (a pseudo AGI) is more like a nuclear weapon than the advent of electricity. The concern is real, even if we are farther away than the author realizes and the risk (like the risk if nuclear war) is not totally insurmountable even if it is extremely difficult.

The first nuclear bombs couldn't end life on Earth either, but it wasn't long before they could, and the scientists working on them saw the trajectory as clear as day when the rest of the world didn't.

Re: Pausing AI Developments Isn't Enough. We Need to Shut It All Down

#19
post #5

If anyone can't get the article, this one is by Eliezer Yudkowsky. He has pretty much devoted his life to thinking about how to not let AI get powerful and destroy all humans, and now there is this wild race among the largest corporations and possibly governments to be the first to get the most powerful superhuman AI system. Obviously he is disturbed by such a development.

This is the one moment he has been waiting his entire life for. He literally waited his entire life for this moment, obviously he's gonna milk it to every drop.

Self-aggrandizement isn't anything foreign to Eliezer, but he's genuinely terrified. Milking it for every drop doesn't really capture what he's doing.

Re: Pausing AI Developments Isn't Enough. We Need to Shut It All Down

#20
> "If somebody builds a too-powerful AI, under present conditions, I expect that every single member of the human species and all biological life on Earth dies shortly thereafter."

> "There’s no proposed plan for how we could do any such thing and survive. OpenAI’s openly declared intention is to make some future AI do our AI alignment homework. Just hearing that this is the plan ought to be enough to get any sensible person to panic. The other leading AI lab, DeepMind, has no plan at all."

Relative to the people actually building the AIs, Eliezer Yudkowsky is more pessimistic. But not to nearly the extreme you might think. Here's a recent survey of published machine learning researchers: https://aiimpacts.org/how-bad-a-future-do-ml-researchers-exp... . Those predictions are optimistic enough that, given the astronomical upside, if we were making a one-shot decision to plough ahead with AI or commit to no AI forever, it might be worth the risk.

But this is a survey of published machine learning researchers. People who think AI will destroy humanity are a lot less likely to write papers about machine learning. And we aren't talking about giving up on AI forever, just delaying it until we're closer to ready. I don't know how long a delay will be necessary; it might be years, it might be decades. Research into AI alignment seemed to speed up pretty drastically when LLMs hit the scene, so I think there's cause for hope. But right now the status quo is zero time: the AI labs are rushing ahead as fast as they possibly can.

If you think Eliezer's right about the risk, then the right decision for us to make, collectively as a species, is to shut down AI development for awhile. If you think Eliezer's wrong about the risk, but the survey of published ML researchers is right about it, then the right decision is also to shut it down for awhile.

Lots of people are responding to this by talking cynically about politics. This is a mistake. Cynicism like that makes self-fulfilling prophecies; but the ability to coordinate does exist.

You think China will build it if we don't? I don't think Xi Jinping is suicidal. You think AI labs will do it anyways, in spite of a government ban? The US government isn't very competent overall, but there are parts of it that can wake up and get things done when literally every executive, Senator, and Representative is otherwise likely to die. You think individuals will do it on their own, in secret? Right now those individuals are getting prestige, GPUs, and venture capital; they'll at least do it a lot less, without those things.

Many people have become desensitized to talk of human extinction, due to repeated hyperbole coming from the environmentalist movement. This is not the same. Global warming might be very bad, but it probably isn't going to kill you personally. Rushing to make a superintelligence is likely to kill you personally.

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