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Judge finds Google destroyed evidence and repeatedly lied to the court [pdf]

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Re: Judge finds Google destroyed evidence and repeatedly lied to the court [pdf]

#51

Post by adrianmonk »

badpun wrote: post #4

It's not "Google" (corporations don't exist in the physical world, so they can't act in it), it was specific people at Google who destroyed evidence or lied to court.

Items 30-32 (from p. 9) seem pretty significant. Basically, other stuff like Gmail automatically went on litigation hold (where records are preserved), but Chat didn't. Google did warn employee about the problem with this and told them not to use Chat for any topics subject to litigation hold. But they left it up to employees to actually do that.

And, very predictably, of course they didn't. Whether it's because they were careless, unaware, intentionally trying to hide things is another question. Regardless, it was an arrangement that basically guaranteed this sort of problem would happen.

Re: Judge finds Google destroyed evidence and repeatedly lied to the court [pdf]

#54

Post by dragonwriter »

darth_avocado wrote: post #7
henriquez wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

People who directly contributed to destroying evidence should also be arrested the same way you would for destroying evidence in any other crimes. (Even if you’re claiming negligence)

> People who directly contributed to destroying evidence should also be arrested the same way you would for destroying evidence in any other crimes.

This is not a criminal case, so “evidence in any other crimes” is inappropriate.

Re: Judge finds Google destroyed evidence and repeatedly lied to the court [pdf]

#55

Post by badpun »

capableweb wrote: post #14
badpun wrote: post #4

It's not "Google" (corporations don't exist in the physical world, so they can't act in it), it was specific people at Google who destroyed evidence or lied to court.

But when things go right, Google reaps most of the benefits, individuals just get a small piece of the pie. But when things go wrong, you want to blame the individuals instead of the group?

Not Google. Owners of Google - so, specific people again.

Re: Judge finds Google destroyed evidence and repeatedly lied to the court [pdf]

#57

Post by Gibbon1 »

timemct wrote: post #6
hanniabu wrote: post #3

It's worth it b/c corporations only get penalized with measly fines

I’ve often thought that when a company, especially one as big as Alphabet/Google, gets fined, it’s simply seen as an operating cost and not as a motivator to do better.

Random thought people say you can't put a corporation in jail.

Well they're wrong. You could sentence the board to serve a stint in jail. Or management. Or even everyone that works there.

Want to talk about lighting a fire under people.

Re: Judge finds Google destroyed evidence and repeatedly lied to the court [pdf]

#58

Post by hot_gril »

zamnos wrote: post #52
hot_gril wrote: post #46

The disappearing chat messages were a pain in the ass for employees too.

there's a group to join to enable history by default.

It still has a timeout, just a longer one, and there's some caveat about the other side sending first that I forget. The only solid solution is to discuss everything in a space instead of a regular group/1:1 chat.

Re: Judge finds Google destroyed evidence and repeatedly lied to the court [pdf]

#59

Post by dragonwriter »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #21
fsckboy wrote: post #15

> The Court has repeatedly asked Google why it never mentioned Chat until the issue became a substantial problem. It has not provided an explanation, which is worrisome, especially in light of its unlimited access to accomplished legal counsel, and its long experience with the duty of evidence preservation. courts never stray "outside the case" but I wish they had said "...and google's long experience saving every sc…

> i think when a court finds you have deleted evidence, that the information deleted is assumed to be evidence against you This is the concept of "adverse inference", and Epic has indeed requested the court instruct the jury of this. However, at this time that hasn't been decided by the court.

The court might do more or (less likely, as I read the order) less than that in this case, having explicitly said it wants to see the state of play of evidence at the end of discovery before making a decision, and only ruling out “terminating sanctions” (i.e., summary judgement now against Google) at this point.

Re: Judge finds Google destroyed evidence and repeatedly lied to the court [pdf]

#60

Post by badpun »

newfonewhodis wrote: post #11
badpun wrote: post #4

It's not "Google" (corporations don't exist in the physical world, so they can't act in it), it was specific people at Google who destroyed evidence or lied to court.

Then why does "Google" get tax benefits and not individuals?

Why do corporation pay taxes is a good question in the first place. The same income is taxed twice - at corporate level first, and then when dividends are paid out (or, in case of buybacks, when shareholders give back their shares to Google in exchange for the profit that was already taxed). From what I've seen at my very cursory look at taxation policy textbooks, the official policy is that taxes don't have to make sense or be fair. They just have to be accepted enough by the population to not stir up trouble, and raise enough money for state to function. Hence the double taxation of corporate profits.
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