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Rotten meat may have been a staple of Stone Age diets

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Re: Rotten meat may have been a staple of Stone Age diets

#51

Post by trws »

dmm wrote: post #42
ravenstine wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why subscribe to the endurance running hypothesis, though? There are no contemporary examples of humans hunting that way, and hominids were already making tools by the time they had developed to subsist on meat. The endurance/persistence hypothesis doesn't even make sense without tools like spears, knives, or arrows, because humans don't kill their prey by biting into them. If they had access to primitive weaponry, w…

In her book "The Old Way", Elizabeth Marshall Thomas describes the Kalahari San who she lived with in the 1950s. Despite having bows and arrows some members of that group would persistence hunt. Dmitriy Lykov(1940-1981) of the Lykov family living an isolated life in Siberia developed a method of persistence hunting, despite or perhaps because of, the absence of any sort of hunting culture in his tiny, isolated group.…

In addition to the direct persistence hunting, also note that most bow and arrow hunting or even spear hunting is, in and of itself, a form of persistence hunting. The expectation that an arrow will take down the animal where it is hit is usually not how it would have worked with more primitive bows except with very small game. The animal would still have to be followed and possibly struck more times to actually bring it down. Bull fighting is a modern extension of this, though in an enclosed space.

Re: Rotten meat may have been a staple of Stone Age diets

#52

Post by Zickzack »

1MachineElf wrote: post #12

As an aside, most industrial meat is exposed either intentionally or unintentionally to lactobacillus strains. Working in kitchens I've had the opportunity to taste spoiling meat that had high amounts of it. When prepared right it is actually quite good. Taste can be similar to dry-aged steak, but juicer and more flavorful. I've never gotten sick, but it certainly seems like a risk, however tasty it may be.

Lactic acid fermentation [1] is the secret to many sausages. In the case of Mettwurst [2], made of raw meat, it is essential. Aged steak, hanged pheasants [3 - with a discussion of bacteria] - even today, the list should be long.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactic_acid_fermentation [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mettwurst [3] https://honest-food.net/on-hanging-pheasants-2/

Re: Rotten meat may have been a staple of Stone Age diets

#53

Post by BigCryo »

Scavenging explains many of the body traits that humans have.. are good binocular vision allows us to see long distances.. so prehistoric man may have been able to see buzzards surfing over a corpse miles away.. so then we began to ran toward the corpse but we had to run fast so that we could beat the other animals to it.. our skeletal structure allows us to run fast and the fact that we have little hair allows us to sweat and carry off the heat so we can run long distances quickly.. once we get to the corpse there are likely other animal scavenging it such as hyenas, and our ability to grasp rocks and throw them allowed us to throw rocks at the hyenas or whatever and scare them off the corpse.. then if there was even little meat left we could pick up a rock smash the bones and get the marrow out.. this explains how we got good long distance binocular vision, a skeleton that allows us to run, a body that allows us to carry off heat through sweating, hands and other anatomy that can grasp and throw stones, and smash bones to get the marrow out

Re: Rotten meat may have been a staple of Stone Age diets

#54

Post by mrguyorama »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #17
leereeves wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dogs don't seem to mind [spoiled meat] I've recently seen proof of that. A dead horse was left on a trail I frequently hike, and I saw dogs eating it a week later. I don't even want to imagine how awful that meat was after sitting in the sun for a week.

That said, all the pets I've had throw up way more than I do. I think we're ignoring the very real possibility that ancient people were constantly living with some level of gastrointestinal problems.

I mean many modern people also live with constant gastrointestinal problems, and I'm not talking about teens eating taco bell and mountain dew every day and wondering why they have bathroom troubles, I'm talking about average people eating a varied and healthy diet with IBS.

Re: Rotten meat may have been a staple of Stone Age diets

#56

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

mrguyorama wrote: post #54
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That said, all the pets I've had throw up way more than I do. I think we're ignoring the very real possibility that ancient people were constantly living with some level of gastrointestinal problems.

I mean many modern people also live with constant gastrointestinal problems, and I'm not talking about teens eating taco bell and mountain dew every day and wondering why they have bathroom troubles, I'm talking about average people eating a varied and healthy diet with IBS.

You're not wrong and that's an excellent example. I'm questioning the idea that somehow people were able to consume this food impact-free. I struggle with the common narrative that somehow people were healthier and better in some dark forgotten past and we should return to those times for our own well being. There often seems to be promises that conditions like IBS would stop existing if we did that. But maybe ancient man was cool with having near-constantly runny poos because there was no alternative.

Re: Rotten meat may have been a staple of Stone Age diets

#59

Post by FrustratedMonky »

ravenstine wrote: post #24
detuur wrote: post #2

I don't see how that's surprising, at least if you subscribe to the Endurance Running Hypothesis (and I do). Any prey humans used to hunt using what we now know as persistence hunting would have been large game. Especially in the hot, tropic climates early humans seemed to have thrived in, such meat would have started to spoil, even if hunted fresh, before any such hunter would have had the time to bring it back to t…

Why subscribe to the endurance running hypothesis, though? There are no contemporary examples of humans hunting that way, and hominids were already making tools by the time they had developed to subsist on meat. The endurance/persistence hypothesis doesn't even make sense without tools like spears, knives, or arrows, because humans don't kill their prey by biting into them. If they had access to primitive weaponry, w…

[flagged]

Re: Rotten meat may have been a staple of Stone Age diets

#60

Post by chrisco255 »

detuur wrote: post #2

I don't see how that's surprising, at least if you subscribe to the Endurance Running Hypothesis (and I do). Any prey humans used to hunt using what we now know as persistence hunting would have been large game. Especially in the hot, tropic climates early humans seemed to have thrived in, such meat would have started to spoil, even if hunted fresh, before any such hunter would have had the time to bring it back to t…

I would disagree that meat had a short shelf life. It is almost trivial to dry meat out and make jerky that will last a very long time. Doesn't even require advanced tools.

That being said, still agree with the premise. When you're truly hungry, food is food.

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