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Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#201

Post by throwaway22032 »

staunton wrote: post #158
throwaway22032 wrote: post #107

I have no idea why people on here are so against this. It just reinforces the fact that we're so different. Politically divided. I just want meat. Actual meat from normal animals. I have no idea why this is controversial. I don't get any of it. A solution in search of a problem.

The issue is that mean production has externalities (e.g. climate, labor conditions, environment, biodiversity, animal suffering), some of which we will soon no longer be able to ignore. We can insist on ignoring the problems for as long as possible but that's still not forever. Eventually we will have to start paying the "real price", which would mean that meat gets a lot more expensive, as it used to be a few hundr…

Houses are too "consumptive", live in a pod.

Not for me.

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#202

Post by Loughla »

nemo44x wrote: post #15
bl4ckm0r3 wrote: post #3

I am italian, not sure i agree with this. I would have rather allow it (even if I would have probably not bought lab grown meat) and be sure it's well communicated during the sale (either on the package or from the vendor in case it's a butcher shop). Especially because we can't ban Monsanto's GMOs and I don't see how this is worse...

I am not Italian but think it’s a step in the right direction, but overreaches. I think they should make it law that synthetic meat can’t be called “meat” and that insect ‘flour’ can’t be called “flour”. And should have to be prefaced with “unnatural food product” or similar on all sides of packaging.

>“unnatural food product”

How is insect flour any more or less natural than processed and bleached wheat flour? I legitimately do not understand, other than the long tail of cultural norms. It's not any less natural.

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#203

Post by pella »

deergomoo wrote: post #13

This seems no different than the ridiculous laws proposed in some US states recently that would ban EV sales to protect the oil and gas industries. I’m sorry that people could one day lose jobs over this, but if lab-grown meat is proven to be a safe and cost/energy/carbon efficient alternative to raising and killing animals, then it would be insane to not pursue that.

a bigger context: Lab-grown human meat is also a controversial idea.

Con:

Producing and consuming lab-grown human meat raises ethical questions about human dignity and the potential normalization of cannibalism, even if it does not involve harming an actual person.

Many religious and cultural beliefs would likely oppose the production and consumption of lab-grown human meat.

The long-term health effects of consuming lab-grown human meat are unknown, and the production process would need to be carefully regulated to ensure safety.

The idea of consuming human meat, even if lab-grown, is likely to be met with strong social disapproval and stigma, which could hinder its acceptance.

The production and consumption of lab-grown human meat could face legal challenges in many jurisdictions, as it might be considered a form of cannibalism or be subject to other regulations.

Pro:

Some individuals may be interested in trying lab-grown human meat due to curiosity or as a novel experience, without causing harm to another person.

Cultivating human tissue in a lab could have applications in medical research, such as testing drug efficacy, studying human tissue regeneration, or using it for transplantation purposes.

imho: lab-grown meat not only a scientific issue.

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#204

Post by andsoitis »

pella wrote: post #72
deergomoo wrote: post #13

This seems no different than the ridiculous laws proposed in some US states recently that would ban EV sales to protect the oil and gas industries. I’m sorry that people could one day lose jobs over this, but if lab-grown meat is proven to be a safe and cost/energy/carbon efficient alternative to raising and killing animals, then it would be insane to not pursue that.

> but if lab-grown meat is proven to be a safe We need to fully understand its safety, nutritional content, and long-term health effects. Our understanding of the full biochemical spectrum of our diets is still limited. Therefore, it's important to ensure that lab-grown meat adequately replicates the complex array of nutrients and other beneficial compounds found in conventionally produced meat. Long-term effects: Si…

This feels like a GPT comment, but I’ll bite:

> it's important to ensure that lab-grown meat adequately replicates the complex array of nutrients and other beneficial compounds found in conventionally produced meat

Why?

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#205

Post by illiarian »

briandear wrote: post #179
illiarian wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those name protections also tend to protect established players and regions even if they ultimately may produce utter garbage. I come from a small wine-producing country of Moldova. It produces or produced anything from wine to classical champagne to port to cognacs to... Now it's only wine that can be called wine (thankfully it's been around for longer than most civilizations). And for the rest they had to come up w…

Cognac is literally the name of a region. As is Champagne. It misleads the public when Moldovan Cognac is being sold as Cognac. Cognac is a subset of brandy anyway. Champagne is a subset of sparkling wine. And Port is named for the town in Portugal Oporto and is a subset of fortified wine. If the Moldovan spirits industry has a superior product, why can’t they call it a relevant name that protects the integrity of th…

> Cognac is literally the name of a region. As is Champagne.

See Generic Term/Trademark https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_trademark

I've yet to see a single person who thinks of the region when refering to a fizzy alcoholic name as "champagne".

> If the Moldovan spirits industry has a superior product, why can’t they call it a relevant name that protects the integrity of their creation?

You constructed your argument in a way that makes it sound that the moment something is called by a place name it becomes the superior product.

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#206

Post by __void »

youngNed wrote: post #59
dotsam wrote: post #4

On the topic of food traditions in Italy: 'Everything I, an Italian, thought I knew about Italian food is wrong', in the FT recently - https://archive.is/4gwGh#selection-1454.0-1454.1

this article is what i thought of when i saw this post to HN. I am dying to hear an Italian tell me how controversial this opinion / person is and what conversation is around it/him

that article here in italy sparked endless controversy, low-level dumbass jokes and even some minor politicians had to have their stupid say; obviously, as italians, no one read the article or even a single line. that said, for those in the industry, nothing in that article is new.

regarding some things about food, here in italy the rule is don't ask and don't tell

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#207

Post by thefz »

kfk wrote: post #34

I was reading somewhere that Poland will overtake Italy in GDP pro capita in 10-20 years. True or not Poland is doing much better than Italy already. I think it’s interesting that a country that was 50 years under a dictatorship was able to take over on a country that has not only had freedom and democracy, but also help and financial support from US and EU. Italy is not hungry for growth and it keeps consuming whate…

One thing only is needed by this government to make things right: start enforcing payment of taxes. There's a gaping hole in our economy due to the fact that it's too easy to hide and no government is going to tackle the issue for fear of losing consent.

Until then, everything will slowly fail as it is happening already.

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#209

Post by thanatropism »

fnmron wrote: post #109
9dev wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because one thing is more bad doesn’t make the other good. We can both stop killing bulls for fun and take care of other issues too.

There's many adjacent practices to bull fighting that are legal. So for consistency sake we will need to look into farming, we will need to look into carnivorous animals, we will need to look into supplying air conditioning to animals in a hot day for the sake of their welfare

Tauromachy isn't "bullfighting". It's circus and drama; it's adjacent to religious sacrifice (rather, than, as some seem to think, betting on dogfights). But it's not religion either.

Animals have to die. The bulls in tauromachy are of a special type that's bred out in the open; they live lives that no other bovine lives -- not even in India, where sacred cows are still beasts of burden.

There's a kind of carefree righteous kind of person that reacts at events rather than systems. So they're agitated by the bloodshed of bulls or tiktoks of cobalt mining in Africa agitates them, and this makes them good people. Isn't it good to be a good person?

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#210

Post by kfk »

nforgerit wrote: post #112
kfk wrote: post #34

I was reading somewhere that Poland will overtake Italy in GDP pro capita in 10-20 years. True or not Poland is doing much better than Italy already. I think it’s interesting that a country that was 50 years under a dictatorship was able to take over on a country that has not only had freedom and democracy, but also help and financial support from US and EU. Italy is not hungry for growth and it keeps consuming whate…

Italy was the lab for modern populism in politics for 20-30 years. The nation is suffering from corrupt politicians like Berlusconi having tight bonds with the mafia. Don't put this on "the people" who can barely do much if the whole system is undermined by their leadership for decades.

I think we disagree on the problem and I understand I have a strong opinion which might be wrong. But I think that kind of thinking is exactly the issue in Italy. I think if the "people" took responsibility for their actions Italy would not be in this situation. In fact, I think Italy and Italians never took responsibility for terrible stuff like Mussolini and the Holocaust, so from my perspective this is an old, old, problem.
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