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Amazon starts flagging frequently returned products that you maybe shouldn’t buy

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Re: Amazon starts flagging frequently returned products that you maybe shouldn’t buy

#191

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

rfwhyte wrote: post #187
srmarm wrote: post #9

I don't get they don't crack down on the product switcheroo scam [0] - it seems like a trivial problem to solve. I've reported items to them before and they don't care. [0] this product for example, loads of the reviews are for something totally different - https://www.amazon.co.uk/WERPOWER-Windscreen-Invisible-Winds...

They don't do anything about it because it's a feature not a bug. They know full well about all the fake reviews, fake products, product switches, counterfeit products, dangerous products, etc., and choose not to do anything about any of it because it's making them money. Amazon is basically an online real estate company that owns a giant online mall full of scammers, snake-oil salesmen and fraudsters, but they get t…

The profit from the fraud is not worth the reputation damage.

Future rent check income will go down a lot if people stop going to the mall because it's full of scammers.

The cost of properly policing it is likely the main deterrent.

Re: Amazon starts flagging frequently returned products that you maybe shouldn’t buy

#192

Post by mrgoldenbrown »

sofixa wrote: post #22
srmarm wrote: post #9

I don't get they don't crack down on the product switcheroo scam [0] - it seems like a trivial problem to solve. I've reported items to them before and they don't care. [0] this product for example, loads of the reviews are for something totally different - https://www.amazon.co.uk/WERPOWER-Windscreen-Invisible-Winds...

How is it trivial to solve? They either need to prevent sellers from modifying product pages (which would be a disaster because any mistakes could no longer be fixed without losing all reviews) or gate it behind human intervention(slow) /algorithm (complex). There's nothing trivial about the issue.

One trivial but major improvement would be to let me see the edit history of the product, the same way I can see the edit history of a wikipedia page.

Re: Amazon starts flagging frequently returned products that you maybe shouldn’t buy

#193

Post by maxerickson »

hedora wrote: post #145
Cyykratahk wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if it's not trivial to solve perfectly, there are easy wins to be had. For example: prevent changing the top-level category of a product. E.g. Shoes should not be allowed to become camera gear.

As always, the internet has already generated a counter example to your rule: https://www.spycamerasmall.com/mobile-spy-camera/bodyware-sp...

If their goal is to make their product listings useful, they wouldn't include that as a shoe.

Re: Amazon starts flagging frequently returned products that you maybe shouldn’t buy

#194

Post by giantg2 »

dxuh wrote: post #4
giantg2 wrote: post #2

Overall this is great. This might have some problems though. Some frequently returned items might not have any issues, but might be getting ripped off more. For example, I bought a warehouse deal controller. I opened the controller box and instead of a controller I found 2 bars of soap.

I think if I knew something like that about a product, I would also not want to buy it. Those false positives are probably fine.

Why wouldn't you want to buy it new if this problem only affect the used products?

Re: Amazon starts flagging frequently returned products that you maybe shouldn’t buy

#195

Post by tfourb »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #169
sofixa wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it trivial to solve? They either need to prevent sellers from modifying product pages (which would be a disaster because any mistakes could no longer be fixed without losing all reviews) or gate it behind human intervention(slow) /algorithm (complex). There's nothing trivial about the issue.

> gate it behind human intervention(slow) That's not my problem. The courts have already weighed in on this. Marting Lewin sued facebook for publishing ads that used his face to defraud people. Facebook used the same excuses you just wheeled out, and the judge wasn't impressed. Fraud is a crime, little people go to jail for less every day. https://news.sky.com/story/martin-lewis-settles-lawsuit-agai...

"It's hard" should not be an excuse for not preventing fraud. Most arguments from tech companies boil down to "but we would have to spend some of our billions of dollars of annual profits or venture capital to prevent this and those jobs wouldn't be sexy engineer stuff, so why would you want us to do something like this." I never understood how/why these companies are getting away with this, given that fraud/abusive behavior in other parts of the economy is taken quite seriously.

Re: Amazon starts flagging frequently returned products that you maybe shouldn’t buy

#196

Post by gowld »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #169
sofixa wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it trivial to solve? They either need to prevent sellers from modifying product pages (which would be a disaster because any mistakes could no longer be fixed without losing all reviews) or gate it behind human intervention(slow) /algorithm (complex). There's nothing trivial about the issue.

> gate it behind human intervention(slow) That's not my problem. The courts have already weighed in on this. Marting Lewin sued facebook for publishing ads that used his face to defraud people. Facebook used the same excuses you just wheeled out, and the judge wasn't impressed. Fraud is a crime, little people go to jail for less every day. https://news.sky.com/story/martin-lewis-settles-lawsuit-agai...

Sellers in China don't go to jail in US.

"Ships from and Sold by Amazon" if you don't want foreign sellers.

That doesn't solve the problem, because it locks out legit Chinese sellers. Solving the problem is hard.

Re: Amazon starts flagging frequently returned products that you maybe shouldn’t buy

#197

Post by gowld »

bogwog wrote: post #102
blarghyblarg wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to be argumentative, but... that's the second option. Algorithmic. The initial implementation would be simple. One point, two points, three points. Then, some categories turn out to have significant change requirements, some change infrequently, some changes turn out to be very important in some categories, some categories need immediate human review...

I'm sure Amazon can commit more resources to solving this problem than some random individual on HN can commit to a ~3 sentence long comment. If they wanted to solve this problem, they would have already. Clearly, they don't care. People buy products with good reviews, and Amazon makes money when people buy products. I wonder if they've been sued over this? I'm not a lawyer, but this sounds like false advertising to…

> People buy products with good reviews, and Amazon makes money when people buy products.

and lose money (or make bad sellers lose money) when people return products -- often times Amazon won't even ask you to ship back a product you complain about.

Re: Amazon starts flagging frequently returned products that you maybe shouldn’t buy

#198

Post by Eisenstein »

vel0city wrote: post #182
Eisenstein wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon isn't really cheaper for anything (unless you count getting a Duwuu 'brand' cable instead of a reputable brand as a discount). Why do people (I?) order from amazon? 1. I don't mind taking $8 electronic devices apart and resoldering connections or doing basic troubleshooting 2. Often get a product in a day or three 3. I have no idea where I would buy a sediment filter (or similar specialized thing) that isn't w…

As for buying somewhat specialized parts I usually find retailers I trust and buy from them. For your example, I usually buy filters from AllFilters.com https://www.allfilters.com/sedimentfilters Or, I might buy direct from the manufacturer's parts website https://www.geapplianceparts.com/store/parts/spec/FTHPM Expanding on that idea, I often buy electrical components from a retailer like Mouser or Digikey or Adafrui…

I love specialty retailers like digikey and retailers have gotten better about incorporating shipping price into unit price so ordering something small doesn't take as big of a hit, and that has encouraged shopping from them.

I am not trying to give the impression that amazon is a great way to get these things, I was itemizing the reasons I use it when I do.

Re: Amazon starts flagging frequently returned products that you maybe shouldn’t buy

#199

Post by fn-mote »

blarghyblarg wrote: post #173
lozenge wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is like saying that stocking groceries is complicated because some items are perishable, some are frozen, some sell faster than others, they go to different parts of the store. Isn't it just a fundamental part of what the business is meant to do? To have reviews that actually relate to the product?

Yes, it is. And in a grocery store, how is a product handled when it comes in on a shipment and doesn't match the previous shipments and/or bills of lading? By a person, in every single grocery store everywhere on the planet. Although, in a grocery store, you're less likely to see a product change from a bicycle to a scooter. You're more likely to see the cocoa content in your chocolate bar drop, and the oil change t…

> You're more likely to see the cocoa content in your chocolate bar drop [...] > many grocery stores also seem to just be ignoring this issue.

I do not believe this is the kind of swap people are complaining about.

We're talking about a box that's labeled applesauce and is actually full of rocks. Grocery stores would kill a supplier who was doing this.

I can't imagine a "real-world" situation happening at the scale of reputation-stealing that happens on Amazon. I suppose it's just an extreme version of "Made In Your Country Tools" building up a good reputation and then quietly outsourcing the work to "Low-Quality Overseas Forge".

Is the problem is that "easy to acquire" reputation for low-cost products (get good rep by using good materials, which don't really cost that much more and eat the cost as a loss leader) is easily transferred to higher-cost products? It's not like you even need to be making bandsaws to get the good rep., then start using it to sell cheap bandsaws? The investment at the start is very low.

Re: Amazon starts flagging frequently returned products that you maybe shouldn’t buy

#200

Post by okasaki »

gowld wrote: post #196
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> gate it behind human intervention(slow) That's not my problem. The courts have already weighed in on this. Marting Lewin sued facebook for publishing ads that used his face to defraud people. Facebook used the same excuses you just wheeled out, and the judge wasn't impressed. Fraud is a crime, little people go to jail for less every day. https://news.sky.com/story/martin-lewis-settles-lawsuit-agai...

Sellers in China don't go to jail in US. "Ships from and Sold by Amazon" if you don't want foreign sellers. That doesn't solve the problem , because it locks out legit Chinese sellers. Solving the problem is hard.

I've never had a problem on aliexpress. So I guess someone solved it.
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