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Ritalin Gone Wrong

nytimes.com

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Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#151

Post by kpennell »

angstrom wrote: post #65
hop wrote: post #19

I have a real problem labeling 10 year olds that get bored and fidgety in boring situations with having a brain disorder and giving them speed. Find me 10 successful entreprenuers and I bet I can show you 10 people who had a tough time sitting through unengaging lesson plans in school. Doesn't help with ballooning class sizes either.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is a correlation between children's transition from asset to expense in the typical urban household. As a child I would've been the perfect ADD candidate, but with plenty of stimulation in the form of work on my parent's farm, I winded up learning how to create outlets for my restless nature. There's nothing more boring or repetitive than driving a tractor around a very large field. M…

Great points...

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#152

Post by run4yourlives »

deno wrote: post #70
jinushaun wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I graduated with a degree in biochemistry hoping to get into the biotech/pharmaceutical industry, but was turned off by the emphasis on treaments instead of cures. Ritalin and Aderall seems analogous to taking pain killers to treat an open wound—masks the symptoms (pain) but doesn't address the cause (open wound). With the explosion of ADD prescriptions, one has to wonder if our society/environment is causing this pr…

> Ritalin and Aderall seems analogous to taking pain killers to treat an open wound—masks the symptoms (pain) but doesn't address the cause (open wound). And how are you going to address the open wound? There’s no brain surgery for ADHD. A better analogy is that of wearing glasses. Glasses don’t actually fix your eyesight, and you need them all the time, but they allow you to function normally. Medications used for A…

So, I'm looking the wackload of comments here: most suggesting they suffer from some kind of ADHD, and then I see you statement:

ADHD is still under-diagnosed in USA, and it’s even worse in Europe.

At what point is the tipping point reached between the "defect" being addressed simply being the norm?

It’s exactly the same as the “explosion” of autism.

This explosion is also because the "autism spectrum" is so broad that it covers everything from the barely functioning severely brain impaired to people that are occasionally moody. At some point, the cause is part of the normal spectrum of human behavior and as such it's questionable whether any type of "treatment" is required at all - especially for children.

To extend your analogy: The problem is that we seem to be one of 2-3 prescriptions to everyone without prefect 20/10 vision, including those with 20/30 vision, color blindness and no eyes.

I'm skeptical of any "disorder" that classifies large sections of our population base as being "deficient". While I don't discount that ADHD does exist, I find it hard to believe that it does so at the levels you would suggest it would.

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#153

Post by foxit »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #35
drumdance wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly related: a surprisingly high percentage of entrepreneurs are also dyslexic.

Source?

http://www.inc.com/articles/201105/are-dyslexics-better-visi... http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/05/business/worldbusiness/05i... http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/dec2007/...

I can't believe the parent got downvoted so badly. Did people think being dyslexic was an insult? It's not.

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#154

Post by Groxx »

nandemo wrote: post #120
Groxx wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those sorts of comments tend to appear with another claim: persistent benefits. Which is something which the short-term solutions rarely offer. In that way, they're perfectly on-topic, and calling into question the use of the short-term solutions at all , especially when long-term benefits have not been shown (consistently, at all, take your pick).

Well, for starters, "reduce distractions" isn't very actionable advice in this context. It's equivalent to saying "cheer up" to people who have clinical depression. I'd be glad to be shown data that better diet and exercise are effective in the treatment of adults with ADD (which is the topic of this subthread). Of course, good diet and exercise are good for you, but that's not the point.

You are correct. The point is that there's no data that shows that ADD medication has any lasting affects, aside from addiction. There's even data that it tends to work for only a few years, and then tapers off. This implies it isn't a solution, and we should be looking for alternatives rather than temporarily putting off the problem.

Here's one. It's anecdotal, but it won't hurt you to try, which can't really be said about the drugs. Then there's also the likelihood that it'll almost never be suggested, because there's little money in getting people to live better - who would fund the research? What studies could be done to show strong connections that wouldn't be easy to write off, when the very act of changing your lifestyle introduces countless variables?

More specifically, 'reduce distractions' is far more actionable than 'cheer up'. One advises a step to reduce the temptation to be distracted, the other advises you to achieve the goal with absolutely no directions.

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#155

Post by Detrus »

estevez wrote: post #144
Detrus wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the rampant abuse of market power by the drug companies with Ritalin and anti depressants, I wonder if homeopathy could be a helpful competitor. Magic water can't cause harm and takes some money away from you so you can't use it for something harmful. I don't remember the names, but a whole generation of anti depressants was shown to be completely useless and harmful. The initial studies were fabricated and/or g…

> The various decade long studies on Ritalin also show it to be largely useless and harmful. Twenty seconds on Google Scholar would lead me to the opposite conclusion. Your source?

My source is this very article we're commenting on, citing those decade long studies.

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#156

Post by estevez »

Detrus wrote: post #155
estevez wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The various decade long studies on Ritalin also show it to be largely useless and harmful. Twenty seconds on Google Scholar would lead me to the opposite conclusion. Your source?

My source is this very article we're commenting on, citing those decade long studies.

If that's the case then I disagree with your characterization; I don't see any passage that refers to decade long studies that show that Ritalin is "harmful" in the long-term.

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#157

Post by wahnfrieden »

foxit wrote: post #153
wahnfrieden wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source?

http://www.inc.com/articles/201105/are-dyslexics-better-visi... http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/05/business/worldbusiness/05i... http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/dec2007/... I can't believe the parent got downvoted so badly. Did people think being dyslexic was an insult? It's not.

It was the kind of statement that's uselessly skepticism-inducing without a citation.

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#158

Post by jinushaun »

deno wrote: post #70
jinushaun wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I graduated with a degree in biochemistry hoping to get into the biotech/pharmaceutical industry, but was turned off by the emphasis on treaments instead of cures. Ritalin and Aderall seems analogous to taking pain killers to treat an open wound—masks the symptoms (pain) but doesn't address the cause (open wound). With the explosion of ADD prescriptions, one has to wonder if our society/environment is causing this pr…

> Ritalin and Aderall seems analogous to taking pain killers to treat an open wound—masks the symptoms (pain) but doesn't address the cause (open wound). And how are you going to address the open wound? There’s no brain surgery for ADHD. A better analogy is that of wearing glasses. Glasses don’t actually fix your eyesight, and you need them all the time, but they allow you to function normally. Medications used for A…

But if everyone is getting health problems from the factory down the road, maybe instead of only treating the problem with medication, we also shut down the factory causing the health problems.

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#159

Post by deno »

jinushaun wrote: post #158
deno wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ritalin and Aderall seems analogous to taking pain killers to treat an open wound—masks the symptoms (pain) but doesn't address the cause (open wound). And how are you going to address the open wound? There’s no brain surgery for ADHD. A better analogy is that of wearing glasses. Glasses don’t actually fix your eyesight, and you need them all the time, but they allow you to function normally. Medications used for A…

But if everyone is getting health problems from the factory down the road, maybe instead of only treating the problem with medication, we also shut down the factory causing the health problems.

I suppose if we can determine the exact combination of genes that causes ADHD, at some point we’ll be able to eliminate it completely, at least in first world countries. It’s not really an option right now.
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