Amazon starts flagging frequently returned products that you maybe shouldn’t buy • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon starts flagging frequently returned products that you maybe shouldn’t buy

#31

Post by vlovich123 » Tue, Mar 28, 2023, 3:17 PM UTC

heavyset_go wrote: post #26

sofixa wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it trivial to solve? They either need to prevent sellers from modifying product pages (which would be a disaster because any mistakes could no longer be fixed without losing all reviews) or gate it behind human intervention(slow) /algorithm (complex). There's nothing trivial about the issue.

Requiring new listings for new product titles/SKUs, or approval for significant changes to titles/SKUs, seems like it would stop a good portion of these scams.

Yeah, with permanent delisting of the entire company as the penalty. Of course, these people don’t care. They’ll just spin up a new seller and thus the only people you end up hurting are legitimate partners updating their product line.

Re: Amazon starts flagging frequently returned products that you maybe shouldn’t buy

#32

Post by dilyevsky » Tue, Mar 28, 2023, 3:17 PM UTC

sofixa wrote: post #22

srmarm wrote: post #9

I don't get they don't crack down on the product switcheroo scam [0] - it seems like a trivial problem to solve. I've reported items to them before and they don't care. [0] this product for example, loads of the reviews are for something totally different - https://www.amazon.co.uk/WERPOWER-Windscreen-Invisible-Winds...

How is it trivial to solve? They either need to prevent sellers from modifying product pages (which would be a disaster because any mistakes could no longer be fixed without losing all reviews) or gate it behind human intervention(slow) /algorithm (complex). There's nothing trivial about the issue.

Are you saying that in the age of ai it’s impossible to tell whether the page is now featuring a completely new product without human review?

Re: Amazon starts flagging frequently returned products that you maybe shouldn’t buy

#33

Post by lwhi » Tue, Mar 28, 2023, 3:17 PM UTC

sofixa wrote: post #22

srmarm wrote: post #9

I don't get they don't crack down on the product switcheroo scam [0] - it seems like a trivial problem to solve. I've reported items to them before and they don't care. [0] this product for example, loads of the reviews are for something totally different - https://www.amazon.co.uk/WERPOWER-Windscreen-Invisible-Winds...

How is it trivial to solve? They either need to prevent sellers from modifying product pages (which would be a disaster because any mistakes could no longer be fixed without losing all reviews) or gate it behind human intervention(slow) /algorithm (complex). There's nothing trivial about the issue.

If someone reports it, manually review it.

If it's being abused, ban the seller!

Re: Amazon starts flagging frequently returned products that you maybe shouldn’t buy

#34

Post by zht » Tue, Mar 28, 2023, 3:18 PM UTC

sofixa wrote: post #22

srmarm wrote: post #9

I don't get they don't crack down on the product switcheroo scam [0] - it seems like a trivial problem to solve. I've reported items to them before and they don't care. [0] this product for example, loads of the reviews are for something totally different - https://www.amazon.co.uk/WERPOWER-Windscreen-Invisible-Winds...

How is it trivial to solve? They either need to prevent sellers from modifying product pages (which would be a disaster because any mistakes could no longer be fixed without losing all reviews) or gate it behind human intervention(slow) /algorithm (complex). There's nothing trivial about the issue.

you're telling me that Amazon in their infinite wisdom who already deals with all kinds of fraud in their system cannot flag if a product listing changes drastically or is describing something totally different?

Re: Amazon starts flagging frequently returned products that you maybe shouldn’t buy

#35

Post by SifJar » Tue, Mar 28, 2023, 3:18 PM UTC

sofixa wrote: post #22

srmarm wrote: post #9

I don't get they don't crack down on the product switcheroo scam [0] - it seems like a trivial problem to solve. I've reported items to them before and they don't care. [0] this product for example, loads of the reviews are for something totally different - https://www.amazon.co.uk/WERPOWER-Windscreen-Invisible-Winds...

How is it trivial to solve? They either need to prevent sellers from modifying product pages (which would be a disaster because any mistakes could no longer be fixed without losing all reviews) or gate it behind human intervention(slow) /algorithm (complex). There's nothing trivial about the issue.

Couple of fairly simple things they could do to at least help somewhat:

* Put reviews for current listing at the top of the reviews (currently default sort seems to be a vague "Top reviews", but can be changed to "most recent" which presumably accomplishes this. Vast majority never change defaults though)

* Clearly mark any review that is for a previous version of the listing, and provide a link to view the listing at time of review (so can easily see if it was a completely different product or a simple typo correction etc.)

* Perhaps make history of listing visible, so customers can see when and how the listing has changed

Re: Amazon starts flagging frequently returned products that you maybe shouldn’t buy

#36

Post by PurpleRamen » Tue, Mar 28, 2023, 3:18 PM UTC

blendergeek wrote: post #7

Edit: It seems that it is easier now to see the feedback broken down by seller than when I had last used Amazon or I didn't fully understand how it worked previously. Will these be separated by seller? Last I checked there was no way to review a seller on Amazon (or if there was, it was so well hidden that a week of effort and calling customer support only got me a refund). Rather Amazon lets you review "products". G…

> Last I checked there was no way to review a seller on Amazon

What do you mean? Just click the Sellers name on the product-site, to get to their profile with all the reviews about them. There you will find a button to review them. Maybe there is an edgecase where it's not available?

EDIT And looking through my order-history, the review-buttons appears there too for older orders. Maybe when the date of return is up?

Re: Amazon starts flagging frequently returned products that you maybe shouldn’t buy

#37

Post by therealdrag0 » Tue, Mar 28, 2023, 3:19 PM UTC

sofixa wrote: post #22

srmarm wrote: post #9

I don't get they don't crack down on the product switcheroo scam [0] - it seems like a trivial problem to solve. I've reported items to them before and they don't care. [0] this product for example, loads of the reviews are for something totally different - https://www.amazon.co.uk/WERPOWER-Windscreen-Invisible-Winds...

How is it trivial to solve? They either need to prevent sellers from modifying product pages (which would be a disaster because any mistakes could no longer be fixed without losing all reviews) or gate it behind human intervention(slow) /algorithm (complex). There's nothing trivial about the issue.

They could do a similarity diff. If you switch content from towels to solar panels I bet they could get pretty good signal just from text comparison. “This looks like a different product. Different products must use their own SKU. If you believe this is an error, appeal here.”

Re: Amazon starts flagging frequently returned products that you maybe shouldn’t buy

#38

Post by dilyevsky » Tue, Mar 28, 2023, 3:19 PM UTC

CSMastermind wrote: post #25

blendergeek wrote: post #7

Edit: It seems that it is easier now to see the feedback broken down by seller than when I had last used Amazon or I didn't fully understand how it worked previously. Will these be separated by seller? Last I checked there was no way to review a seller on Amazon (or if there was, it was so well hidden that a week of effort and calling customer support only got me a refund). Rather Amazon lets you review "products". G…

> Last I checked there was no way to review a seller on Amazon You can: https://www.amazon.com/feedback Just only for orders that are not "Fulfillment by Amazon". Ultimately the problem is inventory comingling and Amazon not actually knowing which seller your product is from.

It may not know when you order but surely knows when the return happens whose inventory was used

Re: Amazon starts flagging frequently returned products that you maybe shouldn’t buy

#39

Post by atyppo » Tue, Mar 28, 2023, 3:20 PM UTC

we_never_see_it wrote: post #29

The thing I like most about Amazon is its dedication to customers. This is a very long awaited feature and Amazon has delivered it. Amazon could have let users buy from its marketplace and make profit. Instead Amazon has made the right call and decided to protect its customers.

You don’t think they were motivated by the cost of return processing and wasted fulfillment usage? All of these things are significant costs at the scale of returns that Amazon receives.

Re: Amazon starts flagging frequently returned products that you maybe shouldn’t buy

#40

Post by lwhi » Tue, Mar 28, 2023, 3:20 PM UTC

therealdrag0 wrote: post #37

sofixa wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it trivial to solve? They either need to prevent sellers from modifying product pages (which would be a disaster because any mistakes could no longer be fixed without losing all reviews) or gate it behind human intervention(slow) /algorithm (complex). There's nothing trivial about the issue.

They could do a similarity diff. If you switch content from towels to solar panels I bet they could get pretty good signal just from text comparison. “This looks like a different product. Different products must use their own SKU. If you believe this is an error, appeal here.”

ChatGPT can definitely work this out.