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I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

kooslooijesteijn.net

81–90 of 300 posts

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#81

I'd like to see "right to downgrade" put in to law, if I buy a product I should have the option to have it run older firmware, or play an older version of a game I bought.

Yes, it should be possible to revert a device to the state you bought it in. Sure, software support was also included in the price, but there's a reason it's called support and not enforcement.

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#82
It's not just phones. Yesterday I tried to dust off a MacBook Air from 2012 so that the kids could play some games. It was used regularly up until 3 years ago, but now pretty much all software is broken, and it won't let me upgrade anything. Hopefully there's a Linux distro that will work on it.

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#83

If they want to use an old phone, they can just stop updating their apps and not installing new apps. I still own a iPad 3 with the same, old, software stack from 2013. It still works, I can do things. I just don't expect todays developers to make a herculean effort so that I can run their apps on my old device. It is not just the overhead of supporting multiple different OS versions with different technologies, it i…

I wonder if you could run modern Vim/Emacs or if even they are too resource hungry by now.

You could totally run them on an early 90’s PC. Just don’t try to use autocomplete plugins or anything else that needs to hook into every character insertion event. Also I would imagine git (and hence magit) would run pretty slow on an old PC due to all the hashing, but I think it would still be usable.

Also you’d want to avoid loading too many plugins all at once, due to limited RAM, but that should be obvious as well.

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#84
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one thing if you already have the app and just stop updating it. My experience with the iOS App Store has been that if you only just now heard of the app and your phone's too old, you can't even download the version that works for your phone. That is what ends up forcing an upgrade. That people's phones can't run the newest version of an app, and aren't allowed to get an old version as a substitute.

Same issue with Android, FYI. We have a Ring with the app installed on an old phone that we use as the "household" phone. I was going to "upgrade" the household phone to be an old tablet which while newer and running a later version of Android, is still old. Can't install the Ring app on the newer tablet because it is too old. So we are stuck with the even older phone unless we buy something new.

Can you download and save the .apk file of the older app perhaps? This obviously would require you to know ahead of time what you were going to potentially use the device for in the future, which is ridiculous.

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#85
post #33

I'd like to see "right to downgrade" put in to law, if I buy a product I should have the option to have it run older firmware, or play an older version of a game I bought.

So should we force product owners to support multiple older versions of clients, even though the backend is progressed? Who will pay for this extra cost, the users who don't upgrade their devices? I don't think so. Do every rule has to be written, or does writing them into law makes it logical every time? App owners can add "we only support client versions which is max 6 months older than current stable version" to t…

No, not forced to support.

One should, however, be able to download old software and install it.

This is not currently possible.

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#86
> ”iPhones are getting more expensive”

Certainly true in Europe, but remember that the Euro has declined in value significantly relative to the USD in the past few years. If you convert the € prices back into USD at the time of introduction, I bet they haven’t increased any faster than inflation.

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#87

If they want to use an old phone, they can just stop updating their apps and not installing new apps. I still own a iPad 3 with the same, old, software stack from 2013. It still works, I can do things. I just don't expect todays developers to make a herculean effort so that I can run their apps on my old device. It is not just the overhead of supporting multiple different OS versions with different technologies, it i…

I agree in principle but reality is more complex.

I am an android / windows user. After several years I splurged for an expensive brand new iPad specifically to run music apps such as behringer deepmind (which integrates with their synth).

Couple of weeks later iPad silently installed some os update. Half my apps stopped working! They were apparently incompatible with the current OS and I needed to "contact app developer for an update". Which as you point out isn't going to happen.

This is extreme user-unfriendly BS, but apparently par for the course in Apple Land. Eventually I gave the now-useless iPad to my wife. Lesson learned, though not sure what lesson it was. It's hard to run apps?

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#88
post #70
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is just not always a possibility especially if you use apps that connect to online services, this is something that has quite recent come up again as Steam is ending support for Windows 7, 8 and 8.1 in nine months which have caused some uproar in that community. I am surprised that the post about that have not gained any traction on here [0] since to touches the same topic as this one [0]: https://news.ycombinat…

Windows 7 and 8 are both EOL by Microsoft. I don't think it's unreasonable of valve to drop support for OS's that Microsoft aren't maintaining, and the hardware requirements for 7 and 10 are the same today according to MS [0][1]. For a while you could officially upgrade to win10 for free, and it seems that even now, it still works 5 years after they stopped offering upgrades, and 3 years after win7's end of life. I'm…

>Windows 7 and 8 are both EOL by Microsoft. I don't think it's unreasonable of valve to drop support for OS's that Microsoft aren't maintaining

it's not unreasonable until you realize that Valve offers no other method for audiences that may be stuck with older machines to play the games that they purchased, which at the time of purchase they had completely met all of the system requirements.

A basic game should not have a set of rolling requirements that are ever-increasing. Valve decided that they wanted to hold the keys to the kingdom with regards to the games that they sold; thus it's a bit more unreasonable when they decide to nix a part of the audience without any recourse available to them other than "download what you need now, and unplug.".

Leisure Suit Larry required a 286 and CGA graphics -- isn't it a bit ridiculous that a Steam purchased 'Leisure Suit Larry' is going to soon require an OS greater than Windows 8.1? Yeah; I get that it's only by virtue of requiring their portal to download the thing , but they offer no alternative to this .

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#89

On a similar note, I have a Motorola G8+, Android 10. It has 4GB of RAM, plenty of free space in storage, and the CPU isn't actually that bad still. The battery is in good condition. A brand new phone doesn't necessarily have any better stats. For some reason, it is slow . As in, it will still usually run apps at full speed, the framerate in a flight sim is just as high as before etc, but then it will just freeze up…

I still use my OnePlus 5 which is now (almost) 5 years old! It has 8GB of memory with Android 13 and a custom ROM. It's still faster than some phones that are released today. I agree though that some apps are extremely resource intensive for the sometimes seemingly things they have to do.

Funny. I'm still on a OnePlus 6 and I see similar bizarre freezes as OP when I open the photo gallery. Or just when starting the camera often I have to wait 15-20s before the phone realizes that I have pictures. Sometimes when swiping through the gallery it will become excessively slow and stop reacting to panning / swiping / zooming.

It's what is driving me close to grabbing a new phone at some point this year.

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#90

On a similar note, I have a Motorola G8+, Android 10. It has 4GB of RAM, plenty of free space in storage, and the CPU isn't actually that bad still. The battery is in good condition. A brand new phone doesn't necessarily have any better stats. For some reason, it is slow . As in, it will still usually run apps at full speed, the framerate in a flight sim is just as high as before etc, but then it will just freeze up…

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