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The meat industry blocked the IPCC’s attempt to recommend a plant-based diet

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Re: The meat industry blocked the IPCC’s attempt to recommend a plant-based diet

#91

Post by scns »

autoexec wrote: post #45
anonyfox wrote: post #12

No matter where you stand (some meat eaters tend to become extremely emotional on this): The fact that the scientific results and recommendations get utterly censored like this before publication makes me really angry. It’s somewhat fine for me if people/governments choose to ignore or argue against these results after publication, but this is just absurd… and is then used from people all over the world to point to „…

> We must find a way to eliminate this lobbying/corruption, rather soon! Who is the person who is caving to pressure or accepting bribes and making changes to scientific results? We could start by finding names and calling for them to become unemployable anywhere they could cause further damage.

How bout punishing those handing out the bribes? Oh noes they are rich, powerful, well connected and have an army of lawyers. Let's rather fry the small fish. No snark intended.

Re: The meat industry blocked the IPCC’s attempt to recommend a plant-based diet

#92

Post by jmkr »

waihtis wrote: post #9

The discussion around plants, meat and dairy need to become much more nuanced. Let's take dairy as an example - has a great effect in boosting mTORC1 activity which causes better growth in children. Now, a non-insignificant set of people who have bought into zealous veganry are raising children who will be physically more fragile just because they've been marketed with the idea that dairy == bad. On the other hand, o…

I have no idea what mTORC1, but this post is in bad faith.

> Now, a non-insignificant set of people who have bought into zealous veganry are raising children who will be physically more fragile just because they've been marketed with the idea that dairy == bad.

> It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19562864/

There's plenty of sources saying a properly planned vegan diet is fine. Lots of vegans take supplements, and lots of food is fortified.

Re: The meat industry blocked the IPCC’s attempt to recommend a plant-based diet

#93

Post by maeil »

waihtis wrote: post #89
000ooo000 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You concede being a layman yet lay out a conclusion as though you are not. Was there any real point to your comment beyond taking a stab at 'zealous vegans'?

The point was that black-and-white thinking / reducing decisions to be made over single variables leads to suboptimal outcomes. Please try a bit harder to be generous with your reading interpretation.

Your comment does not show that there is any "black-and-white thinking" is taking place here, or if it is, that it is unfounded. Even with a generous interpretation, there's no relevancy to be found.

Re: The meat industry blocked the IPCC’s attempt to recommend a plant-based diet

#94

Post by friend_and_foe »

anonyfox wrote: post #12

No matter where you stand (some meat eaters tend to become extremely emotional on this): The fact that the scientific results and recommendations get utterly censored like this before publication makes me really angry. It’s somewhat fine for me if people/governments choose to ignore or argue against these results after publication, but this is just absurd… and is then used from people all over the world to point to „…

Well, speaking on the report, you'll find that all these bodies and their reports are written by committees of special interests in their entirety. There wasn't some report of substance here that was muddied and made less truthful by the meat industry. It had always been this way, even the UN Declaration of Human Rights was written so as to ensure membership in the UN by the big states of the time, and not principled based on some understanding of human rights. Theyre always statements and decisions of convenience for the interests of the attendant parties.

Re: The meat industry blocked the IPCC’s attempt to recommend a plant-based diet

#96

Post by ajsnigrutin »

doctor_eval wrote: post #77
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem here is, that the giant corporations can pollute the environment (eg. coca cola in a plastic bottle, with a plastic cap, with a plastic label, wrapped in a plastic 6-pack, with a plastic handle, on a plastic pallet wrapped in plastic foil), and rich environmentalists then fly their private jets to some 'green' conference and tell an 'average joe' that he shouldn't drive his car and eat meat, and should pa…

The trope of the rich environmentalist flying their private jet, is just that. I’m sure that some exist, but the vast majority take far more care of the environment than that.

https://www.businessinsider.in/sustainability/news/cop27-att...

I'm not sure about that.

I mean.. even if you look at the cars they're driving (again, those are rich people, they can easily afford anything electric):

https://www.schwarzeneggerclimateinitiative.com/

And then he drivers an SUV even larger than him:

https://www.tmz.com/2022/01/21/arnold-schwarzenegger-car-acc...

Ursula:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2021/11/02/revealed-a...

etc.

Re: The meat industry blocked the IPCC’s attempt to recommend a plant-based diet

#97

Post by brokenkebaby »

doctor_eval wrote: post #77
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem here is, that the giant corporations can pollute the environment (eg. coca cola in a plastic bottle, with a plastic cap, with a plastic label, wrapped in a plastic 6-pack, with a plastic handle, on a plastic pallet wrapped in plastic foil), and rich environmentalists then fly their private jets to some 'green' conference and tell an 'average joe' that he shouldn't drive his car and eat meat, and should pa…

The trope of the rich environmentalist flying their private jet, is just that. I’m sure that some exist, but the vast majority take far more care of the environment than that.

"Vast majority" is not even an applicable term here. It is specifically about green gurus with jets (which is not a myth, but observable political phenomenon), and if you're not rich enough, not politically influential, and don't fly own jet - its not about you, or anyone you know.

Re: The meat industry blocked the IPCC’s attempt to recommend a plant-based diet

#98

Post by ajsnigrutin »

anonyfox wrote: post #68
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem here is, that the giant corporations can pollute the environment (eg. coca cola in a plastic bottle, with a plastic cap, with a plastic label, wrapped in a plastic 6-pack, with a plastic handle, on a plastic pallet wrapped in plastic foil), and rich environmentalists then fly their private jets to some 'green' conference and tell an 'average joe' that he shouldn't drive his car and eat meat, and should pa…

the point is it doesn't matter that you are right - all involved parties have to do their part. rich guys point at average Joes and vice versa, and both don't take action because "but the others".

So, how about we ban private jets, both for rich guys and average Joes?

Re: The meat industry blocked the IPCC’s attempt to recommend a plant-based diet

#99

Post by sprucevoid »

waihtis wrote: post #9

The discussion around plants, meat and dairy need to become much more nuanced. Let's take dairy as an example - has a great effect in boosting mTORC1 activity which causes better growth in children. Now, a non-insignificant set of people who have bought into zealous veganry are raising children who will be physically more fragile just because they've been marketed with the idea that dairy == bad. On the other hand, o…

> feel free to correct any errors in my claims

What you say about mTORC1 is not supported by the leading academic researcher organizations in the field of nutrition.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27886704/ "It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes."

If you think you have greater scientific expertize about this then I urge you to pursue a career in the related fields, publish your scientific evidence in the top journals and eventually change the recommendations. Until you accomplish that me and everyone else reading this should rely on the position cited above.

> political panels who are sticking their finger up in the air ...

That is not the situation here. The climate policy recommendations on eating are based on the best current scientific evidence. See https://eatforum.org/eat-lancet-commission/

Re: The meat industry blocked the IPCC’s attempt to recommend a plant-based diet

#100

Post by seba_dos1 »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #55
anonyfox wrote: post #12

No matter where you stand (some meat eaters tend to become extremely emotional on this): The fact that the scientific results and recommendations get utterly censored like this before publication makes me really angry. It’s somewhat fine for me if people/governments choose to ignore or argue against these results after publication, but this is just absurd… and is then used from people all over the world to point to „…

The problem here is, that the giant corporations can pollute the environment (eg. coca cola in a plastic bottle, with a plastic cap, with a plastic label, wrapped in a plastic 6-pack, with a plastic handle, on a plastic pallet wrapped in plastic foil), and rich environmentalists then fly their private jets to some 'green' conference and tell an 'average joe' that he shouldn't drive his car and eat meat, and should pa…

That's true, but I don't really see how the existence of assholes should give me a free pass for being an asshole myself.
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