Agreed. Reminds me of front end dev where it’s become laughingly complex with every wheel seemingly re-invented so many times.
Kubernetes is hard
91–100 of 164 posts
Re: Kubernetes is hard
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
I disagree that production is hard in itself, I think the way people approach production makes it needlessly more difficult. It seems that when launching a service, everyone seems to try to get the entire stack in one shot, which is difficult. A much better approach is "1. Make it work 2. Make it good 3. Make it fast". Your initial prototypes need to define the core functionality, and then you incrementally build stu…
Security as well. Now step 0 is "Make it secure". When using microservices connected via the internet, you have no choice.
Security is a spectrum.
You can go from out of the box Debian listening on 22/80/443 directly on internet to WAF, intrusion detection, encrypted overlay networks with CA hierarchy and offline route keys, encryption at rest, elaborate IAM, hardware signed commits, full supply chain audits with every dependency vetted and vendored, multi-access-level logs, mandatory spyware on all corporate gear, and so on and so forth. For most businesses it's more of the former than the latter, and there's definitely no such thing as categorically "secure".
Re: Kubernetes is hard
#93I am consistently confused by all of the talk about how "hard" Kubernetes is. We spin up EKS. We install the newrelic and datadog log ingestion pods onto it, provided in a nice "helm" format. We install a few other resources via helm, like external secrets, and external dns, and a few others. Kubernetes EKS runs like a champ. My company saves 100k/mo by dynamically scaling our cloud services, all of which are running…
Yeah it's easy for you because it's two people's full time job to maintain it? Many of us are having to learn it and use it in our spare time, or on top of our other work. We wouldn't necessarily know the best practices, or to use newrelic and datadog, or what to use for external secrets, external dns, how to diagnose and debug the issues which inevitably will occur when setting it up.
Now this is true for doing it without k8s too, but somehow there was never a huge set of blog posts about "it's really hard to set up a load balancer and a secrets service and networking" but there is for k8s, so there must something intrinsic in either its design or its documentation that is causing that. I think it's probably that k8s is designed for google-scale deployments, so for most people the initial burst of complexity is a bit overwhelming.
Re: Kubernetes is hard
#94Kubernetes is hard because it's over-complicated and poorly designed. A lot of people don't want to hear that because it was created by The Almighty Google and people have made oodles of money being k8s gurus. After wasting two years chasing config files, constant deprecations, and a swamp of third-party dependencies that were supposedly "blessed" (all of which led to unnecessary downtime and stress), I swapped it al…
You can setup a solid k3s cluster in 30 minutes. I'm sorry you had a hard time but just because you didn't succeed at your attempt doesn't mean it actually is super hard.
Setting it up is relatively easy, keeping it running consistently while navigating the schizophrenic levels of change and indecision on how things are done is another bag of chips. No need for passive aggression.
Re: Kubernetes is hard
#95Kubernetes is hard because it's over-complicated and poorly designed. A lot of people don't want to hear that because it was created by The Almighty Google and people have made oodles of money being k8s gurus. After wasting two years chasing config files, constant deprecations, and a swamp of third-party dependencies that were supposedly "blessed" (all of which led to unnecessary downtime and stress), I swapped it al…
It’s not overly complicated, it’s just trying to serve everyone’s use cases. I’ve tried deploying to 10k servers with custom scripts in Jenkins, bamboo and AWS auto scaling groups but I’ve found kubernetes is the only tool that will elegantly handle a problem. You can probably write a script for the happy path but for a production service I’d bet my money on something that can handle all of the problems that come along with the statistics blow ups at scale. That said, I can be complete overkill for most systems.
Re: Kubernetes is hard
#96I feel with AI, maybe in a couple of years it's going to trivial to deploy things on current infra stacks. AI can probably create whole range of Terraform scripts, deploy k8s and dockers and scale them automatically, with maybe a few humans as supervisor.
Re: Kubernetes is hard
#97> Kubernetes is complex and I think they are partially right Kubernetes is a distributed centralized operating system which itself depends on a distributed decentralized database, and has a varying network topology, permissions system, plugins, scheduler, storage, and much more, depending on how & where it was built, and runs applications as independent containerized environments (often deeply dependent on Linux kern…
if you think k8s is the most complex system anyone in the world will ever use: 50K googler using borg beg to disagree.
Is borg as operationally broken as k8s?
Also, I would guess borg directly fits the google applications. k8s is not really a great match for many others.
Re: Kubernetes is hard
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
Disagree I tried to use lambda. Cold startup really is awful. You have to deal with running db migrations in step functions or find other solutions. The aurora serverless also does not scale to zero. Once you get traffic you overload RDS and need to pay for and setup a RDS proxy, and dont get me started on the pointless endeavor of trying to keep your lambdas warm. Sort of defeats the point. Serverless is not actuall…
Serverless does not necessarily mean lambda. It could be just about anything that runs containers for you. AWS ECS has an offering called Fargate that I've been happy with for our hosting. You are right though that the compute costs are typically more than renting a traditional VPS. There is definitely a tradeoff between labor and compute costs.
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Re: Kubernetes is hard
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
if you think k8s is the most complex system anyone in the world will ever use: 50K googler using borg beg to disagree.
Is borg as operationally broken as k8s? Also, I would guess borg directly fits the google applications. k8s is not really a great match for many others.
I'm not sure what you mean by operationally broken. While I would agree that k8s is not a great match for many, I wouldn't say it's fundamentally broken. It still has many rough edges.
What's amazing about borg is the number of clusters, their sizes, and the support teams that keep them healthy. k8s does not have that.
Re: Kubernetes is hard
#100I feel with AI, maybe in a couple of years it's going to trivial to deploy things on current infra stacks. AI can probably create whole range of Terraform scripts, deploy k8s and dockers and scale them automatically, with maybe a few humans as supervisor.
The other side of that is debugging things when stuff goes wrong.
From that perspective, it kind of sounds absolutely horrible unless matching "figure out what went wrong" pieces evolve to match.