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Greenland ice sheet is close to a melting point of no return

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Re: Greenland ice sheet is close to a melting point of no return

#151

Post by mikrotikker »

bell-cot wrote: post #67
BirAdam wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if that’s an accurate measure of sea level rise, then ocean salinity would drop significantly and cool the planet very rapidly, and by quite a bit. Not sure what outcome of that would be, but dramatic sudden cooling would likely devastate agriculture.

Are you thinking of this theory? Greenland Melts ==> North Atlantic Salinity Falls ==> North Atlantic Ocean Currents Disrupted ==> Local Cooling of Northern Europe If so, sed 's/cool the planet/cool Northern Europe/' Though yes, it'd be locally pretty dire for agriculture. Maybe they could switch to farming fish in all the newly-flooded lowlands...

The fish will be dead from all the nitrogen run off.

Re: Greenland ice sheet is close to a melting point of no return

#152

Post by heleninboodler »

chollida1 wrote: post #118
0xbadcafebee wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in climate change. I changed my job in order to do so. The pace of change feels glacial (badum-bum). The same can be said of politics, and everything else that involves way too many interests fighting over a very small set of resources. You will never not feel helpless. Greta Thunberg probably felt helpless. But she turned that feeling into anger, and that anger into action. Henry Rollins said he stays angry,…

> Greta Thunberg probably felt helpless. But she turned that feeling into anger, and that anger into action. Serious question. What impact has she had? I haven't seen any changes from her actions. People knew about climate change before she came around. What changes did she create?

The biggest impact I've seen is that a lot of people are very angry at her for some reason.

Re: Greenland ice sheet is close to a melting point of no return

#153

Post by padjo »

oezi wrote: post #87
padjo wrote: post #79

I mean whatever about the physical reality, politically the ice sheet is guaranteed to melt. There is essentially zero chance of humans coordinating a global response to climate change that achieves anything until things get much much worse

Humans have already achieved that many countries stopped growing their emissions unchecked and are trying to reverse the trend. By means of initial subsidies renewables are now producing cheaper energy than fossil sources. This causes the normal market forces to act (economies of scale, tipping points, etc.) which make it very likely that renewables will be the predominant energy source of the 21st century.

Global emissions are still going up.

Re: Greenland ice sheet is close to a melting point of no return

#154

Post by robocat »

scrollaway wrote: post #147
imwithstoopid wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

exactly, fly all over the world and tell the dirt poor uneducated masses about the dangers of carbon emissions! and then realize the dirt poor uneducated masses already have a low carbon footprint because THEY'RE DIRT POOR

What the f are you talking about?

A reliable approximation for your carbon footprint is your total spending, which is closely related to your income.

If your income is very low, you are quite simply not spending much on climate warming activities.

There are some exceptions to the rule, but it is a valid generalisation.

Re: Greenland ice sheet is close to a melting point of no return

#155

Post by tejohnso »

neerd wrote: post #10

Does anyone have suggestions for how an individual can feel like they’re actually doing something. I already make donations to organizations that advocate for climate activism, vote at local and national level for candidates what support climate action, and in my own live I try to be conscious about the environment impacts or my lifestyle and purchases. Despite all that I still feel like I'm changing nothing. I still…

> how an individual can feel like they’re actually doing something

That's going to depend on the individual. Some people feel just fine driving a hybrid automobile every day as their big contribution. Some people quit eating meat, quit flying, quit driving altogether, and some even protest. Of course there are many options and many different levels of guilt and helplessness that individuals deal with.

But perhaps you could address your need to feel like you're doing something. You don't have to do anything. You can give yourself some slack. This isn't a problem that you caused, and it's not a problem you're going to solve.

What do you do when a loved one is in the later stages of terminal cancer? Do you fret and feel like you need to do something? Do you yell at the doctors to try one last thing? Do you cry over loss? Maybe but eventually in a healthy person that will all end. Once someone is in hospice, it's time to work toward acceptance and appreciation and to try to enjoy the last bit of time left as much as one can. We're in a sort of planetary hospice situation right now.

Re: Greenland ice sheet is close to a melting point of no return

#156

Post by epolanski »

alex_young wrote: post #32
zamfi wrote: post #7

Let me preface this by saying that I believe climate change and decarbonization to be one of the critical challenges of our time. That said… This article’s title and its content are completely at odds. Here’s a critical passage: > As the ice sheet melts, its surface will be at ever-lower elevations, exposed to warmer air temperatures. Warmer air temperatures accelerate melt, making it drop and warm further. Global ai…

From the same page: Previous research identified global warming of between 1 degree to 3 degrees Celsius (1.8 to 5.4 degrees Fahrenheit) as the threshold beyond which the Greenland Ice Sheet will melt irreversibly. We're already at 1.2c above pre-industrial levels. Although it will take a long period of exposure to warm air for the ice to melt, we've already been doing that for a long time. It doesn't seem reasonable…

Only 1.2?

Definitely feels like much more.

Re: Greenland ice sheet is close to a melting point of no return

#158

Post by mbgerring »

imwithstoopid wrote: post #31
scrollaway wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the only correct answer from all of these. The highly educated are far more likely to make a significant difference especially if they have knowledge that spans multiple fields.

exactly, fly all over the world and tell the dirt poor uneducated masses about the dangers of carbon emissions! and then realize the dirt poor uneducated masses already have a low carbon footprint because THEY'RE DIRT POOR

What are you talking about? “Work on climate” means “build the infrastructure to enable the transition away from fossil fuel dependence,” not… whatever imaginary demon you’re fighting with here.

Re: Greenland ice sheet is close to a melting point of no return

#159

Post by epolanski »

neerd wrote: post #10

Does anyone have suggestions for how an individual can feel like they’re actually doing something. I already make donations to organizations that advocate for climate activism, vote at local and national level for candidates what support climate action, and in my own live I try to be conscious about the environment impacts or my lifestyle and purchases. Despite all that I still feel like I'm changing nothing. I still…

Consume less, buy less material stuff, eat less meat/fish, have less than 3 children, set a good example without becoming annoying to family and peers.

Don't over stress it though. You can't change the world but you can set great seeds with examples.

Re: Greenland ice sheet is close to a melting point of no return

#160

Post by epolanski »

BurningFrog wrote: post #82
neerd wrote: post #10

Does anyone have suggestions for how an individual can feel like they’re actually doing something. I already make donations to organizations that advocate for climate activism, vote at local and national level for candidates what support climate action, and in my own live I try to be conscious about the environment impacts or my lifestyle and purchases. Despite all that I still feel like I'm changing nothing. I still…

The truth is that whatever you or I do personally has no effect at all globally on this. That's also true of hundreds of global and international problems. The best approach is to accept that which you cannot change.

I really dislike those arguments. It's like why bother voting, one vote does not change much.

You can be conscious about your consumption and set great examples. Or you can decide you don't care and keep ordering stuff on amazon every day, shove meat and fish everyday in your mouth, change car every few years while flying regularly and pretend is somebody's else problem.

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