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Greenland ice sheet is close to a melting point of no return

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Re: Greenland ice sheet is close to a melting point of no return

#131

Post by vintermann »

ryandrake wrote: post #11

Every time there's an article about climate change, it's always about how we're "close to the point of no return." It's felt like the Truck Almost Hitting The Pole GIF[1] for like 10 years now. Has anything actually gone past the point of no return? I'll almost be relieved when we're officially inevitably fucked... at least these "nearly there!" articles won't keep popping up. 1: https://tenor.com/view/truck-crash-te…

> Has anything actually gone past the point of no return?

We won't know when we pass points of no return until well after we're past them (and even then, living in denial may be an understandable option). To know if the brakes will work, you have to actually step on the brake first.

But we have lost a lot of biodiversity as a result of global warming, yes. Things like palsa bogs which won't come back for a long time even if climate returns to preindustrial tomorrow.

Re: Greenland ice sheet is close to a melting point of no return

#132

Post by CadmiumYellow »

earthscienceman wrote: post #104
patrickdavey wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, what's your plan?

This is an interesting and open question. But I need you to be slightly more specific. In my research? For my personal life? For the global economy?

I'm most curious about your personal life!

Re: Greenland ice sheet is close to a melting point of no return

#133

Post by nickpp »

nostrademons wrote: post #75
ryandrake wrote: post #11

Every time there's an article about climate change, it's always about how we're "close to the point of no return." It's felt like the Truck Almost Hitting The Pole GIF[1] for like 10 years now. Has anything actually gone past the point of no return? I'll almost be relieved when we're officially inevitably fucked... at least these "nearly there!" articles won't keep popping up. 1: https://tenor.com/view/truck-crash-te…

We already are officially inevitably fucked. If you corner a climate scientist in private and point out the real implications of their work, they might even admit it. The problem is you can't admit that we're officially inevitably fucked in public. If you did that, funding for climate science and climate mitigation would dry up, because there's nothing we can realistically do about it. Trust in governments would evap…

> there's nothing we can realistically do about it

There is something we can do about it: we can keep improving, evolving, getting better. The solution will only be found in the future, with tools maybe outside of our grasp today.

Nothing is inevitable, until it happened. Till then, you and every other pessimist cand still be proven wrong. My money is on the creativity and ingenuity of the race that started in the trees, went to the moon and is currently birthing an even greater intelligence.

Re: Greenland ice sheet is close to a melting point of no return

#134

Post by akiselev »

thechao wrote: post #108
folsom wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the process that removes CO2?

The snowball Earth's (both of them) were caused by excess serpentine weathering. Serpentine is one of the most common minerals in the Earth's crust — like 80% of it. The serpentine is covered in limestone (and other things) which prevents warm-saline erosion of the serpentine, directly. If you look at the tailings from the coal mines in the TVA, you could "just" ship those tailings to the Gulf coast (using the old tr…

> Serpentine is one of the most common minerals in the Earth's crust — like 80% of it.

Serpentines are common but they do not make up 80% of the crust. Feldspars are the most common minerals in the crust and they make up less than 60% of it [1].

[1] https://deq.nc.gov/energy-mineral-and-land-resources/geologi...

Re: Greenland ice sheet is close to a melting point of no return

#135

Post by [deleted] »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #107
earthscienceman wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a climate scientist that studies Greenland, can confirm: we're (not-even-inevitably but currently) fucked.

What are you doing in your personal life? I've strongly considered moving to the great lakes region, but most likely caring for my parents will keep me in the south east.

[deleted]

Re: Greenland ice sheet is close to a melting point of no return

#136

Post by tzs »

gridspy wrote: post #29
zamfi wrote: post #7

Let me preface this by saying that I believe climate change and decarbonization to be one of the critical challenges of our time. That said… This article’s title and its content are completely at odds. Here’s a critical passage: > As the ice sheet melts, its surface will be at ever-lower elevations, exposed to warmer air temperatures. Warmer air temperatures accelerate melt, making it drop and warm further. Global ai…

No, the story is that we begin the melting by raising the earth's temperature a little. You'd think that if we reduced our carbon emissions, the ice would stop melting. > But once the ice crosses the threshold, it would inevitably continue to melt Bear in mind that the atmosphere retains carbon dioxide for ~50 years, that other melt events are dumping methane into the atmosphere from permafrost. It's not just one fac…

> Bear in mind that the atmosphere retains carbon dioxide for ~50 years

It's 300-1000 years [1].

[1] https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2915/the-atmosphere-getting-a-...

Re: Greenland ice sheet is close to a melting point of no return

#137

Post by saiya-jin »

Arnt wrote: post #35
zamfi wrote: post #7

Let me preface this by saying that I believe climate change and decarbonization to be one of the critical challenges of our time. That said… This article’s title and its content are completely at odds. Here’s a critical passage: > As the ice sheet melts, its surface will be at ever-lower elevations, exposed to warmer air temperatures. Warmer air temperatures accelerate melt, making it drop and warm further. Global ai…

Temperature is a function of elevation. It's saying that if you move the surface down by removing the top layer of material (ice), the temperature at the surface increases, all else being equal including the temperature at sea level. The effect is real, and big enough to feel with the naked skin. One generally says one kelvin per 100m elevation, although the Greenland surface will be different from that rule of thumb…

> One generally says one kelvin per 100m elevation

That's not true in Europe nor Asia nor South America nor Africa, although I didn't climb mountains specifically in Greenland to be factual. Better value is cca 0.6C per 100m, or 6C per 1km (sorry, no conversion to feet/yard vs F and similar fun games for lazy sunday afternoon... seriously, with all the love, fix this shit guys, we are not living in 15th century when similar stuff was common and accepted).

It depends on many factors including humidity and local meteorology.

That part discussed about moving surface down doesn't make sense - you can lower glacier only to base rock/soil level. But at this level, where glacier starts, its already the dreaded temperature they want to avoid, so glaciers should be melting from the bottom with this logic. If they mean that once ice melts the rock temperature rises well yeah, that's a no brainer, its a different surface. Ice has surface temperature below/around 0, any rock hit with sun can easily surpass that even during winter.

I know reality is more complex out there, one of my todos is to have sleepover (no tent) on nearby Mer de Glace in Chamonix, France. Just me, gazillion stars, mountains crumbling around me and glacier cracking beneath my ass.

Re: Greenland ice sheet is close to a melting point of no return

#138

Post by STM32F030R8 »

vlunkr wrote: post #66
ryandrake wrote: post #11

Every time there's an article about climate change, it's always about how we're "close to the point of no return." It's felt like the Truck Almost Hitting The Pole GIF[1] for like 10 years now. Has anything actually gone past the point of no return? I'll almost be relieved when we're officially inevitably fucked... at least these "nearly there!" articles won't keep popping up. 1: https://tenor.com/view/truck-crash-te…

Applies to the Doomsday Clock as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doomsday_Clock Someone ought to make a parody clock at this point.

Oh that’s a funny read. Somehow 2023 is the closest we’ve ever been to global catastrophe? I’m not saying it’s out of the question this year but those jokers really think now is worse than at any point in the cold war? Really? Well you know what they say about broken clocks…

Re: Greenland ice sheet is close to a melting point of no return

#139

Post by wolpoli »

ryandrake wrote: post #11

Every time there's an article about climate change, it's always about how we're "close to the point of no return." It's felt like the Truck Almost Hitting The Pole GIF[1] for like 10 years now. Has anything actually gone past the point of no return? I'll almost be relieved when we're officially inevitably fucked... at least these "nearly there!" articles won't keep popping up. 1: https://tenor.com/view/truck-crash-te…

The headline is talking about a point of no return for a specific threshold or feedback loop, and there seem to be no end of those, for decades to come. As for the "we're fucked" point of no return, we'll still need to first precisely define it.

Re: Greenland ice sheet is close to a melting point of no return

#140

Post by STM32F030R8 »

andrewstuart wrote: post #99
ryandrake wrote: post #11

Every time there's an article about climate change, it's always about how we're "close to the point of no return." It's felt like the Truck Almost Hitting The Pole GIF[1] for like 10 years now. Has anything actually gone past the point of no return? I'll almost be relieved when we're officially inevitably fucked... at least these "nearly there!" articles won't keep popping up. 1: https://tenor.com/view/truck-crash-te…

Have you missed the events of the past few years? The droughts, the floods, the fires?

Not trying to be snarky but… those happen literally every year.
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