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Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

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Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#671

Post by dTal »

mordae wrote: post #635
whats_a_quasar wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mental health of teens and pre-teens has gotten really bad. This isn't just another "think of the children scare." Since the early 2010s the rate of self harm among girls 10-14 has ~tripled, and the rate of suicide among 10-14 year olds has doubled [1]. And there is now lots of evidence that this is because of social media and smartphones. The social lives of kids have changed drastically, in a way that does not…

I don't think this is about smartphones. This is about the online systems they interact with. We really should ban systematic user manipulation, advertising as a business and all unmoderated online spaces. Most on-topic and/or small communities are fine. It's OK to create forum, but you need someone to step up and step in when necessary. Unmoderated FB-style exchanges and viral content with attached comment section n…

>ban systematic user manipulation, advertising as a business and all unmoderated online spaces

One of these is not like the others.

Ban private communication because think of the children? Heard that one before. And "moderation" is "systematic user manipulation", so I guess just ban everything? "Moderation" is not some panacea, it just means some unspecified third party interfering. Moderated by whom, and by what critera? And those "FB-style exchanges" you hate are "moderated" by the FB algorithm.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#672

Post by rayiner »

themitigating wrote: post #657
throwaway-blaze wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The graphic depiction of underage people engaged in sex acts is against federal law and most likely Texas law as well. It is baffling to me how the media depicts this as "anti trans" or "anti lgbt" book banning while managing to never mention the specifics of the books. I'm about as liberal as they come on social issues. But I don't think these books are appropriate in an elementary or middle school library.

Are all the books being banned pornographic? Is this a way for people to get some books that maybe should be banned but then go after books where gays and trans people are shown in a positive light?

It’s specifically a reaction to the American Library Association giving “Gender Queer” one of its top awards for the age 12-18 category. It revealed that the librarians teaching your kids are a lot more progressive about kids exploring their sexuality than even Obama-voting parents who support equal civil rights but still hold traditional beliefs about sex being shameful and something children should be protected from. That’s why republicans were able to leverage the issue in places like Florida and Virginia—places that often swing blue due to large Hispanic and Asian populations, who also happen to be pretty conservative on sexual issues.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#673

Post by themitigating »

stuckinhell wrote: post #648
fknorangesite wrote: post #643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you have no connection to my family and aren't responsible for their well being. Sure, but you are, and morbia's comment here was a thoughtful call for introspection on your part when considering what that well being entails, exactly. It was not out of place.

My point was that I am and he isn't. His comment was only thoughtful on his own terms. His terms aren't universal or acceptable because it's my family not his. He's projecting his personal experience onto my kids, which I've clearly discussed prior is not the same generationally or ever personally. I'm not alone in this. Parent's are tired of people who have no business in our families trying to push their own vision…

What you think as "pushing" is simply making people aware of the existence of another culture, idea, or political view and that's why I don't agree with you. It's similar to how people misuse "indoctrination". This whole "I'm a parent" mantra to shut down opposing views is pathetic. Being a parent doesn't make you special, doesn't mean you get more power than others, and it certainly doesn't make you right.

I also consider people like to be a danger because you think your view is 100% correct, that exposure to different opinions is wrong, and finally is that you'll use the government to push YOUR agenda, and yes that is the correct usage this time. It's already happening in Florida.[1]

You don't like what it's in public schools feel free to home school your children. You don't like what it's in the library, don't go. Unless you lock your kids away they are going to see and hear about things you disagree with and maybe you pushing so hard is going to backfire.

ON THE OTHER HAND

Keep banning books, keep calling your enemies pedophiles, and keep pushing just because you've had local success when no one was watching (i.e. Mom's for Liberty). You'll turn the right of center and moderate voters towards the Democrats and, hopefully, just like Arizona, enough states will fall and this nonsense will stop.

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65071989

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#674

Post by themitigating »

rayiner wrote: post #672
themitigating wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are all the books being banned pornographic? Is this a way for people to get some books that maybe should be banned but then go after books where gays and trans people are shown in a positive light?

It’s specifically a reaction to the American Library Association giving “Gender Queer” one of its top awards for the age 12-18 category. It revealed that the librarians teaching your kids are a lot more progressive about kids exploring their sexuality than even Obama-voting parents who support equal civil rights but still hold traditional beliefs about sex being shameful and something children should be protected fro…

" It revealed that the librarians teaching your kids are a lot more progressive about kids exploring their sexuality than even Obama-voting parents w"

Source? I ask because I didn't know librarians teach kids

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#675

Post by themitigating »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #646
morbia wrote: post #633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to be clear, I am not a parent and I would not be so presumptuous to criticise someone's parenting skills when I have not gone through it. I wholeheartedly agree with you that the internet of 2023 is nothing like 2013 (or 2003 when I was growing up), and I don't think your reaction to the situation you described is wrong. Needless to say, parenting in this era is really, really hard and I don't envy you. However…

You may be too deep in the community to appreciate, but younger teens have had family supervision for millennia and for good reason. Their brains are not fully formed yet. That you can think up a problematic case doesn’t mean we throw out the concept for the other 90% of kids that benefit from involved parents. Some of the rest are suicide risks even when not being harassed. They’d benefit as well. I personally grew…

That's great, feel free to supervise your kids. You don't get to use the government to do it. Are you saying that the 1st amendment can have exceptions if a child's safety is at stake?

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#676

Post by autoexec »

rayiner wrote: post #609
heavyset_go wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> https://jonathanhaidt.substack.com/p/the-teen-mental-illness... I don't necessarily buy the premise that the economy isn't having poor effects on teenagers' mental health just because the GFC is "over". Maybe to financial markets it is, but for people who need to work for a living, things changed since 2008 for the worse. Teens are more likely to see their parents struggle to pay bills despite working full-time and…

Is that the economy, or is it the way people are socialized to think about the economy, and life in general? The suicide rate in America is four times higher than in the poor developing country I’m from.

Being poor is depressing, but I suspect watching your standard of living decline, your hopes and dreams destroyed, and your children forced to struggle in ways you or your parents never had to before hits harder.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#677

Post by themitigating »

throwaway-blaze wrote: post #582
rayiner wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“WASP” has the specific connotation of northeastern white people of longstanding American lineage. (The term typically excludes southern and Appalachian whites that technically also are Anglo Saxon and Protestant.) Those people are the vanguard of social liberalism today, in states like Massachusetts and Connecticut. In Florida, meanwhile, non-Hispanic whites are just 51% of the population (versus 65-70% in Massachus…

The graphic depiction of underage people engaged in sex acts is against federal law and most likely Texas law as well. It is baffling to me how the media depicts this as "anti trans" or "anti lgbt" book banning while managing to never mention the specifics of the books. I'm about as liberal as they come on social issues. But I don't think these books are appropriate in an elementary or middle school library.

Probably no one thinks it shouldn't but you are manipulating the debate by finding an example like that and ignoring books that are banned for other reasons.

Here's a list from one county https://pen.org/banned-books-florida/

I'm going to do one because I'm pretty sure I don't need to check anymore to determine that you are cherry picking.

Love to Mama: A Tribute To Mothers, by Pat Mora, Paula S. Barragán M.

"Pat Mora edited and contributed to this beautiful and celebratory collection, in which thirteen poets write with joy, humor, and love about the powerful bond between mothers, grandmothers, and children. These poets represent a wide spectrum of Latino voices, from award-winning authors to a 15-year-old new talent. They write passionately about their Puerto Rican, Cuban, Venezuelan, and Mexican American backgrounds and the undeniable influence of their mothers and grandmothers. Illustrated with exuberance by Ecuadorian artist Paula S. Barragán M.,"

They banned a valid book so you can hold it up and say what you said. In fact without these new laws I'm sure the book in question (which you didn't mention) probably wouldn't be in libraries

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#678

Post by themitigating »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #647
PretzelPirate wrote: post #638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who better than a loving parent to guide them? Many of us didn't have loving parents. We had parents who would weaponize any detail they learned about us in order to hurt us. I used the internet to get away from my parents when I physically couldn't.

A constructive solution to that is to call CPS or even run away. Getting hooked on tiktok as you would a drug is not. I don’t believe this bill blocks iMessage for example.

So a child getting addicted to Tiktok is worse than them running away or calling CPS, which could lead to their removal?

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#679

Post by autoexec »

bioemerl wrote: post #636
rayiner wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that the economy, or is it the way people are socialized to think about the economy, and life in general? The suicide rate in America is four times higher than in the poor developing country I’m from.

And the economy isn't even that bad in general. I don't understand this tendency on the internet just so overly exaggerate how bad the economy is. Unemployment is near record lows right now. We have a bit of wage growth lag in the last few years thanks to everything going on, but up until then we had pretty strong wage growth. I don't know if I'm just in a bubble because I don't live in one of the big cities with cra…

> And the economy isn't even that bad in general. I don't understand this tendency on the internet just so overly exaggerate how bad the economy is. Unemployment is near record lows right now.

Unemployment doesn't tell us a whole lot. There's more people out of work today than before. Unemployment numbers don't tell you about the people whose only employment is part time or pays a fraction of what it used to pay either.

In the US evictions are on the rise, homelessness is on the rise, child poverty is on the rise, household debt is on the rise, utility service disconnections are rising, 80% of people in the US think their children will grow to be worse off than they are. None of this signals a healthy economy. The economy is making many already rich people even more money than ever before while the middle class increasingly struggles and the poor face ever rising expenses.

Outside of the tech world, this is a great time to find a job, but that doesn't mean you'll make enough money to support yourself. Programmers have it a bit rough right now, and it always hurts like hell to see your standard of living decline, but it's not that bad really. For so much of the country their standard of living starts a lot lower and it's still getting worse.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#680

Post by rayiner »

themitigating wrote: post #677
throwaway-blaze wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The graphic depiction of underage people engaged in sex acts is against federal law and most likely Texas law as well. It is baffling to me how the media depicts this as "anti trans" or "anti lgbt" book banning while managing to never mention the specifics of the books. I'm about as liberal as they come on social issues. But I don't think these books are appropriate in an elementary or middle school library.

Probably no one thinks it shouldn't but you are manipulating the debate by finding an example like that and ignoring books that are banned for other reasons. Here's a list from one county https://pen.org/banned-books-florida/ I'm going to do one because I'm pretty sure I don't need to check anymore to determine that you are cherry picking. Love to Mama: A Tribute To Mothers, by Pat Mora, Paula S. Barragán M. "Pat Mor…

Nobody is "manipulating the debate." The book linked above is the most challenged book in these efforts: https://www.npr.org/2022/04/04/1090067026/efforts-to-ban-boo.... The American Library Association gave that book its Alex Award in 2020, for books for children 12-18. It's not some random book cherry-picked out of nowhere.

None of the books are "being banned." States are deciding what taxpayer-funded school libraries are making available to children. No decision has been made regarding the specific book you linked. An entire set of books approved in 2021 are being reviewed for appropriateness. Of course valid books are going to be pulled in the meantime while the government does its review. It's like a product recall--you pull the batch while you figure out how bad stuff made it through the filter.

I can’t help but notice your attempt to imply that Florida educators were somehow trying to suppress “Venezuelan, Cuban, and Puerto Rican” authors with your example. DeSantis won 68% of Cubans, and the majority of Puerto Ricans and Venezuelans. Which circles back to my point above--the librarians pushing pornographic content in schools are overwhelmingly (80%) white. It's a cultural thing--on average, white people are the ones in this country okay with adolescents having sex, and the ones who put the heaviest emphasis on kids "finding themselves."

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