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The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

mullvad.net

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Re: The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

#271

Post by Loughla »

mikrotikker wrote: post #262
b112 wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you want politicians orgies? Now wait, let not be too hasty here. We should whiteboard this out. There are a lot of moving parts, and shutting down an idea too soon, would be wrong. So to start, uh, just wondering, which politicians? Also, what would they be wearing? Again, only asking for an accurate framing here.

Lauren Boebert is secretly a total hottie. But I really wanna see Mitch McConnell shake what he got.

I know that HN isn't supposed to be for jokes, but legit, I assume that a naked Mitch McConnell looks like the nudist alien scammers from futurama.

https://futurama.fandom.com/wiki/Sprunjer?file=Srunger.png

Re: The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

#273

Post by wizzwizz4 »

dover wrote: post #260
defrost wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any instance of inmates being abused by other inmates or by guards in a prison system is a violation of duty of care. I absolutely agree that measures should be in place to eliminate such abuse and to uphold duty of care. You have failed to demonstrate that trans people in prisons pose any additional risk over and above what already exists - measures put in place should stop same sex abuse and guard abuse equally as…

I'm talking about men in women's prisons. Any man can call himself a woman, and under policies that elevate "gender identity" over sex, will be believed. Effectively making women's prisons mixed-sex environments. Sex-segregation of prisons (and other spaces where women are vulnerable) exists for good reason: the safety and dignity of women. The need for this has been well-documented since the 19th century, when refor…

> and under policies that elevate "gender identity" over sex, will be believed.

This does not apply to the actual policies I assume you're complaining about. Please read the policies – or name them, if you have found some that work that way.

> it is based on significant evidence of the risk men pose to women.

Nobody's disputing that (much as I'd love to live in a world where I could). You haven't demonstrated the risk that trans women pose to the women around them.

> you've presented no argument whatsoever as to why men should be incarcerated in women's prisons.

I'll provide one: male-on-female prison violence is a well-established phenomenon. What do you think is going to happen when you put a handful of women in an all-male prison?

… Or do they not count?

Re: The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

#274

Post by netbioserror »

maxilevi wrote: post #7

Why every 12 months the European Commission comes up with a total dumb and authoritarian proposal and we have to actively fight it? It’s just tiring

It's the iron law of oligarchy. In democracies, politicians need to constantly justify their existence or people might question how their taxes are spent. If you're a sociopath after money and power (elected and appointed roles self-select these traits), you must reinforce a constant narrative of "solving" society's ills.

This pushing, forever persistent, accretes ever greater power to departments and their bureaucrats until the people have no say, and the highest elected offices have no say. Of course, the EU was initially designed this way, so you're fucked any way you frame it.

Re: The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

#276

Post by blitzar »

pjc50 wrote: post #129
photochemsyn wrote: post #30

Suggested alternative: The "End Political Corruption Proposal" "Given that political corruption is rife in European countries, with great detriments to the healthy function of government, all politicians in positions where they may be engaging in corrupt behavior must submit to 24-7 audio and video surveillance, which will be piped over public platforms for crowdsourcing of corruption detection. All personal communic…

We never did find out who leaked the security camera footage from inside a "secure area" of Matt Hancock, UK health secretary, kissing his aide: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/matt-hancock-... A horrifyingly large amount of UK political decision-making that should be minuted is instead carried out secretly on whatsapp.

Your two statements seem to be a contradiction - decision meetings should be public, but the meeting where you are getting a blowie from your assistant on the sofa in your office should be private?

Re: The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

#277

Post by michaelmrose »

_trampeltier wrote: post #188
hutzlibu wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Politics already suffers heavily from not getting the best-of-the-best" It is repeated often, but is this really true? Number 1 trait of a politician should be honesty and integrity in my opinion - and I don't think that you can increase that factor, just with throwing more money on them. Then you maybe just get more smart people, who are in it for the money and use their smarts and cunning to extract even more mone…

If H. Clinton vs D. Trump or D. Trump vs J. Biden are the only choice for the most powerful politic job in the world .. I think they are really not the-best-of-the-best

This is a better argument for the American public making in general poor choices and political parties giving them the kind of people they are apt to vote for rather than paying insufficient salaries.

Re: The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

#278

Post by mikrotikker »

niemenmaa wrote: post #101

The subheading of the proposal is, not surprisingly, "laying down rules to prevent and combat child sexual abuse". Nowadays it seems that every privacy-demolishing law that is proposed is a some form of "Think of the children" [0]. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_of_the_children

It was always so. A stalking horse for the ages. If SOPA and PIPA come back they'll be wrapped in a trans flag to ensure full compliance.

Re: The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

#279

Post by naasking »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #252
dover wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> bad apples The full expression this term is taken from is: "a few bad apples rot the whole barrel". Women don't know in advance who the bad apples are amongst men, so in contexts where women are particularly vulnerable to predation from such men, the whole barrel must be considered as being rotten. This is why we have sex-segregated spaces.

But why draw the boundary there ? Men are a problem because of the society that lets them do what they want. Society doesn't treat trans women like men – and, largely, it does treat trans men like men. Isn't it dangerous to have trans men – many of whom will have testosterone running through their systems – in vulnerable women's spaces? Treating someone who seems like a woman, acts like a woman, is at risk from the g…

> Isn't it dangerous to have trans men – many of whom will have testosterone running through their systems – in vulnerable women's spaces?

To be fair to the OP, I don't think there exists a history of abuse of females from trans men, which strengthens their allegation that the underlying sex might be an important factor to consider in these scenarios. The sex hormones alone maybe just aren't a factor.

It's likely not safe to place trans women into male prisons either though, so I think there ought to another axis than just male/female along which we can segregate, such as violent/non-violent criminal history/tendencies. Come to think of it, that seems almost obvious in retrospect. Put violent offenders together, and non-violent ones together, and then non-violent offenders are far less likely to become harder criminals upon release.

Re: The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

#280

Post by themitigating »

blitzar wrote: post #276
pjc50 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We never did find out who leaked the security camera footage from inside a "secure area" of Matt Hancock, UK health secretary, kissing his aide: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/matt-hancock-... A horrifyingly large amount of UK political decision-making that should be minuted is instead carried out secretly on whatsapp.

Your two statements seem to be a contradiction - decision meetings should be public, but the meeting where you are getting a blowie from your assistant on the sofa in your office should be private?

What does the second act have to do with corruption or information that is useful for the public?
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