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The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

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Re: The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

#221

Post by cafeinux »

cft wrote: post #136
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm totally fine with raising their paychecks by a factor of 10 for their loss of privacy if we implement this... the amount of money we'd save elswhere dur to less corruption would be a few orders of magnitude higher.

You don't even need to raise it that much. One can implement onlyfans.com business model when their electorate pays to them for access to their cam feeds.

The richer would be the ones that do things on their livefeed that attract people. Do you want politicians orgies? Because that's how you get politicians orgies. The poorer politicians would be the perfectly honest and completely boring ones, not a great way to encourage honesty.

Re: The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

#222

Post by defrost »

dover wrote: post #214
defrost wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These aren't hypothetical situations. In some jurisdictions, ... It would be very interesting to see the actual official statistics on this, alongside the data on the number of women prisoners raped and impregnated by male guards. My suspicion is that the former numbers are over exagerated in importance and the later numbers are sharply underr reported .. but I'd still be interested in your best link to back up you…

> women prisoners raped and impregnated by male guards This is why in the UK, women's prisons have a policy where at least 50% of prison officers must be female, and only female officers are allowed to conduct intimate searches where needed, to mitigate against the risk of sexual abuse by males. That there is an existing, mitigated risk of male sexual predation from prison staff, does not justify further increasing t…

So ... you've no actual official link to back up your "non hypothetical" story .. no per capita figures on women in prison being raped by either guards or other inmates (other women or trans)?

That seems odd to say the least.

Re: The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

#223

Post by anonyfox »

fanagra32 wrote: post #137
atlgator wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an opt-in scenario. People aren't forced to be politicians.

Politics already suffers heavily from not getting the best-of-the-best. Making it even less attractive to become a politician is unlikely to improve upon that. In the totality of all politicians out there that you have an opinion about, which fraction of them do you like, in terms of thinking they are the right person for the job? Do you think this fraction would improve with that opt-in scenario implemented?

we are FAR AWAY from that being a problem. An average Joe that isn't corrupted by money/lobbyists/... will make dramatically better decisions than any smartass that also tries to hide the corruption under the rug of meritocracy ("you don't understand, I am the expert!!11").

Decisions that are made in good faith from average people would be so much better than anything we experience today, its almost comically absurd. The decision-making process including all talks being recorded and publically available would also be a massive factor to restore trust in politics.

Re: The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

#224

Post by Joeri »

makomk wrote: post #143
Spivak wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is only true if you give up once it passes. Then you only have to win once to get it repealed.

That's not really true in this case, though. The European Commission is the only institution with the power to propose new EU laws, including repeals or modifications of existing ones. They don't need to be watching their back and making sure that no repeal sneaks through because one couldn't even get started unless they did it. Also, they're not really a democratic institution - their members are decided entirely by…

The commission is tasked by the council to translate policy into proposals. If the council directs the commission to repeal a law, they will draft a proposal to do so. The council also appoints the head of the commission, who has final say in the members. The council in turn is composed of the heads of state of the EU members, so it is mostly directly elected.

Maybe people just need to take more care which leaders they elect, if they don't like the policies that result from it.

Re: The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

#226

Post by geysersam »

raverbashing wrote: post #124
geysersam wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who elected those guys anyway? I sure never had the chance to vote for any of them. I'd be more fine with that if they only regulated narrowly defined inter-state issues in the EU. But stuff like this... There's no mandate. And there's no reason this couldn't be done locally in every member state where the population wants that.

> Who elected those guys anyway? EP elections are well publicized and every EU citizen has the right to vote on it "Every five years EU citizens choose who represents them in the European Parliament, the directly-elected institution that defends their interests in the EU decision-making process. The next European elections will take place in 2024."

Of course.

I always vote in the EP election.

I just find it incredible that when the results are in the people at the top are some guys I've never heard or seen before. And I don't believe I'm uncommonly ill-infomed.

Moving power further away from the electorate should be a last resort for issues that can simply not be handled on the local level.

Re: The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

#227

Post by anonyfox »

geysersam wrote: post #90
maxilevi wrote: post #7

Why every 12 months the European Commission comes up with a total dumb and authoritarian proposal and we have to actively fight it? It’s just tiring

Who elected those guys anyway? I sure never had the chance to vote for any of them. I'd be more fine with that if they only regulated narrowly defined inter-state issues in the EU. But stuff like this... There's no mandate. And there's no reason this couldn't be done locally in every member state where the population wants that.

Well, we actually vote for the EU parliament every 5 (?) years here in Germany. Where are you from that you didn't have to option to vote?

Re: The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

#228

Post by Hamuko »

revelio wrote: post #212
Hamuko wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What other punishments does EU have at its disposal?

For example the UK was threatened at various points with having its electricity supply be cut off, having its planes be banned from overflying Europe, having Spain seize UK territory like Gibraltar, and the EU did impose major financial sanctions against its key industries. The EU also likes to rope in US Democrat Presidents to threaten or suspend cooperation with the UK in various ways, if it doesn't do what the EU…

Got a source for all of those?

Re: The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

#230

Post by soueuls »

No idea why people still consider European countries to be democratic.

People are elected sure, but they are all pretty much socialists, it’s not like you can really choose.

Candidates who have different worldview don’t have access to media.

Oh, and last time we got a say about whether we wanted to wanted to abide by the European constitution we said « no » at 55%

Apparently it did not make any difference whatsoever.

European countries should be treated like anything else.

A bunch of people who seized power and use democracy as a way decentralised power so it’s harder to overturn

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