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The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

mullvad.net

21–30 of 425 posts

Re: The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

#21
post #4

While I appreciate their efforts 100% it's sad people need infographics and ads to know why this is a terrible idea. Although I've seen enough HN comments in recent years willing to gamble on giving their kind an inch as if they won't take the whole field given the chance. History's only reliable lesson here is humans having a short memory of trusting these systems to do what they initially promised they would do, fo…

I think people are generally happy when such systems get repurposed, because the new purpose is likely to be something they're happy with when it comes. For example, in New Zealand, a car number plate tracking system that was only supposed to be used for specific purposes like finding stolen cars, was improperly used during covid lockdowns to catch some people who had been given permission to travel to another region and were doing so legally but the government discovered the permission was a mistake and wanted to stop them. Everyone loved it because bogey-man covid was more important than whatever promises some politician seduced people with years ago.

Re: The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

#23
This is when I get super hopeful that more draconian bullshit like this gets passed. The only way to get regular people to stop accepting their government's bullshit is to severely outrage them. Tiny outrages just get accepted as the new norm.

Re: The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

#24
I hope the people who think this is a bad idea are equally horrified by what factions of the US government and media did to silence speech not in alignment with their preferred ideology. Lying, obfuscating and preventing information from reaching everyone.

When you are for free speech, you have to actively protect that with which you disagree. That’s the only way it works.

If you don’t, someone will eventually come for what you think should be protected…and there will be nobody left to defend it.

Re: The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

#25
post #16
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have to win every time, but they have to win only once.

This is only true if you give up once it passes. Then you only have to win once to get it repealed.

I don't see the EU repealing much. How can there be an expectation of a fruitful campaign to accomplish that? Would it require a sea change in the outlook of the ruling blocs of MPs? Asking sincerely.

Re: The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

#26
post #16
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have to win every time, but they have to win only once.

This is only true if you give up once it passes. Then you only have to win once to get it repealed.

Explain that to anyone living under a dictatorship their grandparents originally supported.

Re: The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

#27
post #2

This is especially important in the age of LLM's. Large scale surveillance while abusive and harmful has historically been limited in scale by the ability of those in control to trawl through data. Automated "moderation" of dragnet communications collection with modern AI holds the potential for a scale of abusive privacy invasion at unprecedented scales.

From the perspective of EU leaders, LLMs are the final ingredient. They won't be able to sleep knowing the NSA is having all the fun without them.

[deleted]

Re: The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

#28

This is so awful that it strikes me as likely being a door-in-the-face[1] proposal designed to make a more 'reasonable' proposal that is still vile on its own merits seem palatable. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Door-in-the-face_technique

See also: Overton Window and Anchoring

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring_(cognitive_bias)

...but yes, this is why in the US republicans are constantly floating all sorts of batshit regressive policies on social welfare programs, LGBTQ people, voting rights, immigration - it shifts the ultimate compromise closer to their desired outcome, and even if it doesn't, it still is virtue signaling to their base, something to shout about at campaign rallies.

"See what I tried to do for you? But those evil liberals shot me down! I need your support!"

Re: The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

#29
post #15

If I lived in the EU I'd want to know who are proposing this kind of stuff and help with anything that gets them far from public and government -related jobs forever, but hey, that's me. Lots of people like to give up a bit of freedom and privacy in exchange for an increased sense of security.

It is EU commissioner Ylva Johansson. Unfortunately, there is not much you can do. She is not elected to this position, but appointed, and in this case by a former government who is no longer in power.

That sounds like she's pretty close to being a lame duck, and has little to lose, popularity wise. If that's correct, she's in an optimal place to become unhinged from a lack of accountability. I'm curious in this case if it's being a professional fall-guy or engaging in their own (u|dys)topian radicalism.

Re: The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

#30
Suggested alternative: The "End Political Corruption Proposal"

"Given that political corruption is rife in European countries, with great detriments to the healthy function of government, all politicians in positions where they may be engaging in corrupt behavior must submit to 24-7 audio and video surveillance, which will be piped over public platforms for crowdsourcing of corruption detection. All personal communications of politicians and of government bureaucrats will become matters of public record for the same reason. Since we cannot trust a corrupt head of government to investigate their own corruption, or one of their underlings, this kind of public exposure of all politicians and bureaucrats is the only reasonable, rational solution to the problem of endemic government corruption in the EU."

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