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Fide Women’s Grand Prix Collapses into “Chaos” as Players Withdraw

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Re: Fide Women’s Grand Prix Collapses into “Chaos” as Players Withdraw

#41
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the context of a discussion about chess, they are.

In the context of a discussion about how chess players (and people in general) are treated, however, they are not.

It would be, but that isn't this particular discussion, this is about chess. And so for all intents and purposes men and women are equal.

Re: Fide Women’s Grand Prix Collapses into “Chaos” as Players Withdraw

#42
post #12

Is there a TL;DR, or is this just a complex clusterfuck? I was expecting standard Ukraine vs Russia issues, but the article goes on to describe what looks like a personal vendetta between two top Kazakh players, safety concerns about travel in Delhi, etc etc.

EDIT: I originally wrote this to ask if anyone else is bothered by the hypocrisy. If you're going to downvote this, I would definitely appreciate if you at least write why you disagree. Also if you are bothered by the hypocrisy, I'd appreciate if you said so. Either way, am I just being crazy? I know I'm not the only one, but I also want to understand where I'm wrong. "What appears to be the position of the Muzychuks…

> If you’re going to downvote this, I would definitely appreciate if you at least write why you disagree.

Downvoting says that “this is not a contribution to productive discussion on HN”.

If it is worth discussing, it is not worth downvoting.

> I am a libertarian, and I am against invasions, occupations, violence, and certainly against war crimes. I’m also against accepting millions of people’s lives being destroyed as “collateral damage” and so on.

> But […]

“Nothing someone says before the word ‘but’ really counts”

Re: Fide Women’s Grand Prix Collapses into “Chaos” as Players Withdraw

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

men and women are not equal

In the context of a discussion about chess, they are.

> The title of Grandmaster, along with the lesser FIDE titles of International Master (IM), FIDE Master (FM), and Candidate Master (CM), is open to all players regardless of gender. The great majority of grandmasters are men, but 40 women have been awarded the GM title as of 2022, out of a total of about 2000 grandmasters. Since about the year 2000, most of the top 10 women have held the GM title. There is also a Woman Grandmaster title with lower requirements awarded only to women.

Seems like yes.. but also no.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandmaster_(chess)

Re: Fide Women’s Grand Prix Collapses into “Chaos” as Players Withdraw

#44
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been following chess tournaments for around two years now. Usually, they aren't this dramatic. In fact, more often than not, you have no clue what tournament is coming up next as there's little to no promotion happening for these events. For instance, the FIDE World Chess Championship between Ian Nepomniachtchi and Ding Liren is starting in about two weeks, and there's hardly any hype related to it. However, onc…

How is Niemann's lawsuit coming along?

Looks like FIDE is conducting an investigation. Their Fair Play Commission has recently submitted a report that has now been forwarded to the Ethics and Disciplinary Commission.

https://www.chessdom.com/fide-fair-play-commission-forwards-...

Re: Fide Women’s Grand Prix Collapses into “Chaos” as Players Withdraw

#45

why is chess separated by gender? we don't separate by gender other intellectual pursuits, e.g. best author, best director, jeopardy winner, etc. [edit] Just checked Wikipedia, and it turns out Chess mostly isn't separate by gender so I stand corrected: The majority of chess tournaments are open to all participants regardless of gender. Very few, if any, international tournaments are restricted to men, but a few are…

when something is dominated massively by one gender, it becomes unwelcoming to the other. Women's chess tournaments are to encourage more women to get into chess.

[flagged]

Re: Fide Women’s Grand Prix Collapses into “Chaos” as Players Withdraw

#46

why is chess separated by gender? we don't separate by gender other intellectual pursuits, e.g. best author, best director, jeopardy winner, etc. [edit] Just checked Wikipedia, and it turns out Chess mostly isn't separate by gender so I stand corrected: The majority of chess tournaments are open to all participants regardless of gender. Very few, if any, international tournaments are restricted to men, but a few are…

> why is chess separated by gender?

Like most other sports, the "male" league is actually open to everyone, women just aren't competitive.

Re: Fide Women’s Grand Prix Collapses into “Chaos” as Players Withdraw

#47

why is chess separated by gender? we don't separate by gender other intellectual pursuits, e.g. best author, best director, jeopardy winner, etc. [edit] Just checked Wikipedia, and it turns out Chess mostly isn't separate by gender so I stand corrected: The majority of chess tournaments are open to all participants regardless of gender. Very few, if any, international tournaments are restricted to men, but a few are…

I find it rather puzzling why people seggregate genders even though the idea is to make society more equal? Wouldn't it be much more beneficial for women and men to share the same room so to say.

Men and women are generally different in physiology, psychology, and many other measurable ways. I don't see why it should be puzzling that there are specific spaces or areas in society that accommodate more of one than the other. This has been demonstrated numerous[0] times[1] by[2] studies[3] (and there are plenty that go both ways, I'll readily admit, but the measurements favor sex-segregated education for certain ages of school children, for example).

It is only people pushing something about "equality" that rejects that men and women are different that take issue with this idea.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-sex_education#cite_note... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-sex_education#cite_note... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-sex_education#cite_note... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-sex_education#cite_note...

Re: Fide Women’s Grand Prix Collapses into “Chaos” as Players Withdraw

#48
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EDIT: I originally wrote this to ask if anyone else is bothered by the hypocrisy. If you're going to downvote this, I would definitely appreciate if you at least write why you disagree. Also if you are bothered by the hypocrisy, I'd appreciate if you said so. Either way, am I just being crazy? I know I'm not the only one, but I also want to understand where I'm wrong. "What appears to be the position of the Muzychuks…

You're being downvoted for engaging in whataboutism, which is a variation of the tu quoque logical fallacy [1]. It's been overused in recent times (especially in relation to the Russian invasion of Ukraine) and people are growing tired of it (and rightly so, as it merely derails discussion and fuels flame wars - contrary to the spirit of HN). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

I have been around political discourse long enough to realize that people saying "whataboutism" is a shibboleth that is used to excuse extreme double standards and hypocrisy.

If you are running a sports competition, and you are told "please ban these Russian athletes, because Russia's invasion of Ukraine is unprovoked and unjustified", I do not think it is a logical fallacy to ask "can I also ban US athletes for the same reason"? Or to ask "why doesn't the same principle apply across the board?"

I have heard ideoogically based people on all sides of an issue use "whataboutism" to escape having to discuss basic logic. If someone is trying to convince you that it's imperative you do X, it's not fallacious to inquire about what the principle behind the imperative is. And why the principle is being applied in this one particular case and not across the board. Otherwise it is "rules for thee, not for me". "But why not for thee too?" "Hey, stop the whataboutism!"

But it's even worse than that. Because if US goes halfway around the world and bombs countries to smithereens which present no threat to it, then that's objectively worse than trying to prevent a former ally from joining an enemy alliance and putting nukes on your border. The correct analogy would be the Cuban Missile Crisis, when USA sponsored the Bay of Pigs invasion, Cuba asked USSR for help, USSR placed nuclear missiles on it, and USA blockaded it and threatened war. One could totally understand USA in that scenario. That's the analogy. Going halfway around the world to bomb countries that don't present a threat to you, is SO MUCH MORE NEEDLESS than what Russia did in Ukraine, that it is all the more deserving of, oh I dunno, 1 athlete being banned somewhere?

Where am I wrong?

Re: Fide Women’s Grand Prix Collapses into “Chaos” as Players Withdraw

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

men and women are not equal

In the context of a discussion about chess, they are.

Is there any evidence to think that? Are there games similar to chess that are dominated by women at the top levels? Is there some reason to think that chess-ability genes are evenly distributed by gender?

My own intuition is that, just like there are more men above 130 IQ and below 70, there are probably more great male chess players than female. This is just the idea of greater male variability which is found across a number of different measures - everything from variation in height to things like polydactyly being more common in men.

Re: Fide Women’s Grand Prix Collapses into “Chaos” as Players Withdraw

#50

why is chess separated by gender? we don't separate by gender other intellectual pursuits, e.g. best author, best director, jeopardy winner, etc. [edit] Just checked Wikipedia, and it turns out Chess mostly isn't separate by gender so I stand corrected: The majority of chess tournaments are open to all participants regardless of gender. Very few, if any, international tournaments are restricted to men, but a few are…

We separate pursuits with a vast gender-related discrepancy. And 99 of the top 100 chess players are men.

Some people believe that men and women are statistically identical if not physically then at least mentally. But just because you can see something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist

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