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Fide Women’s Grand Prix Collapses into “Chaos” as Players Withdraw

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Re: Fide Women’s Grand Prix Collapses into “Chaos” as Players Withdraw

#31

Post by Aeolun »

EGreg wrote: post #12
rippercushions wrote: post #2

Is there a TL;DR, or is this just a complex clusterfuck? I was expecting standard Ukraine vs Russia issues, but the article goes on to describe what looks like a personal vendetta between two top Kazakh players, safety concerns about travel in Delhi, etc etc.

EDIT: I originally wrote this to ask if anyone else is bothered by the hypocrisy. If you're going to downvote this, I would definitely appreciate if you at least write why you disagree. Also if you are bothered by the hypocrisy, I'd appreciate if you said so. Either way, am I just being crazy? I know I'm not the only one, but I also want to understand where I'm wrong. "What appears to be the position of the Muzychuks…

I think the difference is that we’re doing the invading in those instances. This is the opposite, where our literal backyard is being invaded.

They’d have to be stomped on for no other reason than to prevent them doing it again.

I’m also of the opinion that the US and allies probably had more valid reasons to invade any of the countries they did in the past 25 years than Russia had to invade Ukraine.

I feel like the intentions are generally in the right place (e.g. stems from public pressure to do something to help those poor people), and people that are ‘liberated’ are generally happier and healthier afterwards (if they don’t die first). Look at what’s happening now that the Taliban take over again. 20 years of emancipation destroyed in an instant.

That’s the largest crime in my opinion. The west starts a lot of wars, but isn’t willing to see them through to the end. They just fuck up the current stable power structure (regardless of how messed up it is) and then leave.

Re: Fide Women’s Grand Prix Collapses into “Chaos” as Players Withdraw

#32

Post by runnerup »

EGreg wrote: post #12
rippercushions wrote: post #2

Is there a TL;DR, or is this just a complex clusterfuck? I was expecting standard Ukraine vs Russia issues, but the article goes on to describe what looks like a personal vendetta between two top Kazakh players, safety concerns about travel in Delhi, etc etc.

EDIT: I originally wrote this to ask if anyone else is bothered by the hypocrisy. If you're going to downvote this, I would definitely appreciate if you at least write why you disagree. Also if you are bothered by the hypocrisy, I'd appreciate if you said so. Either way, am I just being crazy? I know I'm not the only one, but I also want to understand where I'm wrong. "What appears to be the position of the Muzychuks…

> But given that USA has been doing a lot more just in my lifetime, how come not a single athlete from the USA was so much as banned from a sporting event?

I’m a fairly patriotic American but yes, I do recognize we’ve done at least comparably awful shit in the last 50 years.

The only answer is “politics”. There’s not a rational reason, it’s just politics.

I do think Russia deserves to be shunned, I just also feel USA has often deserved to be shunned as well.

Re: Fide Women’s Grand Prix Collapses into “Chaos” as Players Withdraw

#33

Post by AJRF »

andsoitis wrote: post #11

why is chess separated by gender? we don't separate by gender other intellectual pursuits, e.g. best author, best director, jeopardy winner, etc. [edit] Just checked Wikipedia, and it turns out Chess mostly isn't separate by gender so I stand corrected: The majority of chess tournaments are open to all participants regardless of gender. Very few, if any, international tournaments are restricted to men, but a few are…

Stereotype Threat

Re: Fide Women’s Grand Prix Collapses into “Chaos” as Players Withdraw

#34

Post by jfengel »

jacquesm wrote: post #27
foolfoolz wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

men and women are not equal

In the context of a discussion about chess, they are.

In the context of a discussion about how chess players (and people in general) are treated, however, they are not.

Re: Fide Women’s Grand Prix Collapses into “Chaos” as Players Withdraw

#35

Post by hgsgm »

xkcd1963 wrote: post #25
foolfoolz wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

men and women are not equal

Only when it comes to some biological factors. Most of what we believe separates men from women is learned behavior.

That still counts in practice. We can't immediately rewind time and redo things, even if we wanted to.

Re: Fide Women’s Grand Prix Collapses into “Chaos” as Players Withdraw

#36

Post by brookst »

xkcd1963 wrote: post #16
andsoitis wrote: post #11

why is chess separated by gender? we don't separate by gender other intellectual pursuits, e.g. best author, best director, jeopardy winner, etc. [edit] Just checked Wikipedia, and it turns out Chess mostly isn't separate by gender so I stand corrected: The majority of chess tournaments are open to all participants regardless of gender. Very few, if any, international tournaments are restricted to men, but a few are…

I find it rather puzzling why people seggregate genders even though the idea is to make society more equal? Wouldn't it be much more beneficial for women and men to share the same room so to say.

There is no central planning.

You can go create a chess tournament for short people, or vegetarians, or people who have lived in at least three countries, and nobody will stop you. Nor will your decision be contrary to “the idea” of a more equal society.

Re: Fide Women’s Grand Prix Collapses into “Chaos” as Players Withdraw

#37

Post by smoldesu »

EGreg wrote: post #12
rippercushions wrote: post #2

Is there a TL;DR, or is this just a complex clusterfuck? I was expecting standard Ukraine vs Russia issues, but the article goes on to describe what looks like a personal vendetta between two top Kazakh players, safety concerns about travel in Delhi, etc etc.

EDIT: I originally wrote this to ask if anyone else is bothered by the hypocrisy. If you're going to downvote this, I would definitely appreciate if you at least write why you disagree. Also if you are bothered by the hypocrisy, I'd appreciate if you said so. Either way, am I just being crazy? I know I'm not the only one, but I also want to understand where I'm wrong. "What appears to be the position of the Muzychuks…

> Now we need that for Ukraine.

I get what you're saying and I admire your attempt at a moderate take here. That being said, there is a global concept of civil conduct. It was pretty relaxed in the 1700s (you wont find many who disagree), but now we've moved on to recognizing sovereign nations and solving civil conflict without violence. Russia is resisting this path of conduct and threatening us rather than accepting the peace terms of leaving Ukraine alone. As you'd expect, everyone with a vested interest in maintaining that global civil conduct will denounce Russia's actions, sometimes even protesting their nation outright.

Maybe you think this reflects poorly on them, that's your judgement to pass. They are members of the free world though, we are not to say otherwise.

Re: Fide Women’s Grand Prix Collapses into “Chaos” as Players Withdraw

#38

Post by kzrdude »

jacquesm wrote: post #27
foolfoolz wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

men and women are not equal

In the context of a discussion about chess, they are.

In Sweden, a mere 3% of adult chess club players are women. Women and men then evidently feel quite differently about playing chess (I don't have an explanation.)

Re: Fide Women’s Grand Prix Collapses into “Chaos” as Players Withdraw

#39

Post by kstenerud »

EGreg wrote: post #12
rippercushions wrote: post #2

Is there a TL;DR, or is this just a complex clusterfuck? I was expecting standard Ukraine vs Russia issues, but the article goes on to describe what looks like a personal vendetta between two top Kazakh players, safety concerns about travel in Delhi, etc etc.

EDIT: I originally wrote this to ask if anyone else is bothered by the hypocrisy. If you're going to downvote this, I would definitely appreciate if you at least write why you disagree. Also if you are bothered by the hypocrisy, I'd appreciate if you said so. Either way, am I just being crazy? I know I'm not the only one, but I also want to understand where I'm wrong. "What appears to be the position of the Muzychuks…

You're being downvoted for engaging in whataboutism, which is a variation of the tu quoque logical fallacy [1]. It's been overused in recent times (especially in relation to the Russian invasion of Ukraine) and people are growing tired of it (and rightly so, as it merely derails discussion and fuels flame wars - contrary to the spirit of HN).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

Re: Fide Women’s Grand Prix Collapses into “Chaos” as Players Withdraw

#40

Post by lone_haxx0r »

xkcd1963 wrote: post #25
foolfoolz wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

men and women are not equal

Only when it comes to some biological factors. Most of what we believe separates men from women is learned behavior.

> Most of what we believe separates men from women is learned behavior.

I haven't seen convincing evidence to support this.

There's the possibility that the differences we see in the higher echelons of chess arise from biological differences between men and women. But that possibility is not being explored for political/social reasons.

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