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Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

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Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#611

Post by thomastjeffery »

stuckinhell wrote: post #507
morbia wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gay guy here. I have always said that these sort of laws designed to protect children will do precisely the opposite. An LGBTQ child is effectively forcibly outed by this law, potentially before they've come to terms with their sexuality / gender themselves. Whilst I don't doubt social media causes a lot of harm on children growing up, giving parents full access to your messages is not the solution. In my opinion, ba…

Social media is not the same as it was 10 years ago. The level of which kids compare themselves to other kids took an exponential leap to a near hive mind level. Constantly comparing themselves to the instagram people with fake lives, rich kids, or extremely beautiful people is mentally damaging them. My daughter asked me for plastic surgery, and I was dumbfounded. So I went check her internet logs, and she's been wa…

What has changed is the level of engagement.

The only adequate solution is to respond in kind.

That can only be done from a place of empathy, which is particularly difficult to have if you are starting now.

I think the best approach is to be clear about your intentions and motivations, and make it explicit that you are not looking for opportunity to pass judgement. Be clear about what you want to change, and ask for input.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#612

Post by pavel_lishin »

vxNsr wrote: post #604
pavel_lishin wrote: post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just curious is the any different from what happens right now Because right now you can be anonymous/pseudonymous? Of course people will try to unmask you, but I'm contrasting it in a world where you can't even attempt it.

But what’s the benefit if any time you actually espouse an unpopular opinion you will be unmasked.

There's a difference between _guaranteed_ unmasking, and not.

Thank you for your time.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#613

Post by thomastjeffery »

whats_a_quasar wrote: post #518

I think that people aren't giving enough credence to the reason Utah gives for the restrictions: The teen mental health crisis. Social media has radically changed the social lives of adolescents, and as a result anxiety, depression, self harm, and suicide have all skyrocketed. The data on this is not ambiguous [1]. And there's now a lot of evidence that social media and smartphones are the cause of the crisis: they s…

> And there's now a lot of evidence that social media and smartphones are the cause of the crisis

There's one pesky problem with that assertion: social media isn't a pill. It's not a chemical in the water, or a bacterial infection. It's not a binary switch. Social media is content. Social media is interaction. To treat such a thing as a scalar value is to have meaningless data.

What are the implications of removing a child's access to social media? Does it keep them from getting bullied? Does it keep them from obsessing over their looks? Does it stop them from hearing criticism about their parent's religion? All of the above. Every one of these is a strong contributor to the mental health of children.

By insulating children from their peers, you can avoid a lot of damage: damage that has become significantly more available and engaging than ever before.

By insulating children from their peers, you can avoid a lot of growth: growth that has become significantly more available and engaging than ever before.

This strategy is not a solution: it's a workaround. You get the pros and the cons in equal measure. Surely we can find a better way.

---

The obvious problem with social media - that is actually specific to it - is engagement. That applies much more broadly to our society than the mental health of children. It applies to our political divide. It applies to our economy. It applies to every human relationship that it can.

What children - and the rest of us - really need is a viable alternative. Something that their peers will follow them to. Without that, there is no solution: only avoidance.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#614

Post by judge2020 »

throwaway-blaze wrote: post #585
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From other comments, it seems the definition is not "what you assume is a social media app" but "any service with over 5 million users that facilitates chat via posts". It's baffling to read all the HN comments encouraging draconian restrictions and forced PII collection on websites, all with the assumption that it will only apply to websites I don't like . Laws like this, if enforced, would make a lot of the sites…

The sponsors of this bill are likely less worried about the 17yr olds who can hack around the restrictions. They're more worried about 12 and 13yr olds who are attempting suicide and experiencing mental health crises at a rate that far exceeds any previous time.

The problem is the loss of privacy for all users. They will be forced to verify the identity of every user to do business in Utah, so you can either expect third parties like Stripe (with their Identity product) to get richer or an increase in leaks and hacks containing tons of driver's licenses.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#615

Post by jstarfish »

thomastjeffery wrote: post #610
heavyset_go wrote: post #306

I feel like this is a response to the exponential popularity of sites like r/exmormon among younger generations. For example, look at these exceptions. It seems like organic, unapproved discussion between users is what the bill is trying to stifle: > (D) news, sports, entertainment, or other content that is preselected by the provider and not user generated, ... (Q) to permit comments on a digital news website, if th…

I think you have recognized a significant part of the motivations behind this, but you're missing a key detail: pornography. The Corporation for the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints - which is currently embarrassed to be known colloquially as the Mormon church - has declared "pornography" to be one of the most menacing and dangerous things in our society. Most of the people in Utah's gover…

"Children's privacy" isn't a thing. They are wards of their parents, whose basic fucking job requires they have some clue where the kid is and what they're getting up to.

Then you bring up porn, something illegal for children to be accessing anyway. You are aware of this, yes?

Shame on parents for daring to uphold the law in their own homes.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#616

Post by ngngngng »

Fatnino wrote: post #572
whats_a_quasar wrote: post #518

I think that people aren't giving enough credence to the reason Utah gives for the restrictions: The teen mental health crisis. Social media has radically changed the social lives of adolescents, and as a result anxiety, depression, self harm, and suicide have all skyrocketed. The data on this is not ambiguous [1]. And there's now a lot of evidence that social media and smartphones are the cause of the crisis: they s…

Kids hanging out with classmates on Discord instead of in person certainly leads to a reduction in teen pregnancy

As a parent I'd much rather my kid gets pregnant in high school than kills themselves. I witnessed and experienced first hand the mental health issues that Tumblr caused so I consider myself qualified to speak on this.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#617

Post by ngngngng »

blintz wrote: post #245

The idea that nobody is entitled to privacy until they turn 18 is crazy. I shudder for all the LGBT kids whose parents all now have a (state enforced!) right to snoop on them. (Honestly headline should be: “Utah bill gives parents full access to their children's online accounts, including posts and private messages”)

> (Honestly headline should be: “Utah bill gives parents full access to their children's online accounts, including posts and private messages”)

Cool, lets do that.

I witnessed and experienced the mental health crisis Tumblr caused. It's not worth it. Take all the kids off the internet. Save some lives.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#618

Post by ngngngng »

pc2g4d wrote: post #358

Generally I support parents taking action to protect their kids from the harms of social media; but coming from a state government, and this one in particular, it comes across as a bit draconian the approach being taken. The hidden agenda does seem to be keeping Mormon youth from encountering materials critical of LDS church truth claims. Too little too late, but I'm sure that's one intended consequence.

> The hidden agenda does seem to be keeping Mormon youth from encountering materials critical of LDS church truth claims.

This is a common claim of online commenters that seem to have no first hand experience with the LDS faith. There is no effort within the church to keep members from reading things critical of it. It's not anything anyone ever brings up.

In recent years there have been efforts related to the slight increase in membership withdrawal, but those efforts have been publishing books (Saints) and articles (Gospel Topics Essays) that directly confront some of these topics that those leaving the faith feel were kept from them.

This was a somewhat defensible opinion a couple decades ago, but it's pretty laughable today.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#619

Post by Fatnino »

ngngngng wrote: post #616
Fatnino wrote: post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids hanging out with classmates on Discord instead of in person certainly leads to a reduction in teen pregnancy

As a parent I'd much rather my kid gets pregnant in high school than kills themselves. I witnessed and experienced first hand the mental health issues that Tumblr caused so I consider myself qualified to speak on this.

Tumbler is a giant mental health issue enabling echo chamber.

Some doctors could probably make an entire career out of trying to fix that place.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#620

Post by williamDafoe »

isaacremuant wrote: post #395

Laws can't and shouldn't substitute good parenting. Laws of this kind only make it worse for everyone and teen who knows a bit will find ways to bypass them. It's a bad slippery slope to even more government overreach in what was once, an avenue for democratisation of the conversation and freedom: the internet.

Guns don't kill people. People kill people. The only way to stop a bad 6-year-old with a gun is to have another good 6-year-old with a gun. ALL NONSENSE!
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