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Cryptocurrencies add nothing useful to society, says chip-maker Nvidia

theguardian.com

31–40 of 377 posts

Re: Cryptocurrencies add nothing useful to society, says chip-maker Nvidia

#31
post #10

Who is "society"? Users of cryptocurrencies obviously find them useful, or hope they will be in future. The alternative to cryptocurrency and blockchain contracts are global alliances that make trading in dollars easy in all important markets and enforce contracts across jurisdictions. Billions of people who are not part of these alliances are left out and the rest are reliant on US/Europe remaining leading superpowe…

"Users of cryptocurrencies obviously find them useful, or hope they will be in future" Do they hope they'll be useful in the future because they think they're great technology that everyone should benefit from... or do they want them to be useful because they bought in early and want to get rich?

There's some interesting technology and philosophy angles there. ("What exactly is money and how does it work?") But the moment crypto became a speculative asset, it jumped the rails.

We get a lot of obviously not-ready-for-prime-time stuff hitting production because it's too lucrative (see any number of DAO and smart-contract schemes that imploded), and there's a systemic allergy to input from the outside world as to what normal consumers want (things like reversability and systemic backstops), because the current system appeals to speculators.

I'd see the case for "useful in the future" if there were more efforts to answer the no-breakthrough-tech-required "faster horses" problems people have with mainstream finance. FedNow is coming in months and will give me settlement in minutes for pennies, and likely very solid legal backing. This is faster horses. Crypto might offer similar settlement speeds, but I understand it depends on the particular chain I choose, and to an extent, how much I'm willing to pay to push the transaction through. I'd also wonder how reliably the courts will accept a crypto paper trail if there's ever a dispute on a payment. (Not necessarily because the trail is bogus, but simply because it's not a well-established precedent of who and what can be trusted)

Re: Cryptocurrencies add nothing useful to society, says chip-maker Nvidia

#32
I think a more defensible phrase would be "net negative to society". Crypto has its positive uses, but you have to balance those against the negatives of slow transfer speeds, speculative bubbles, scams, energy consumption, and carbon emissions.

Also, it needs to be said that Nvidia is probably just jumping on the next marketing bandwagon by pivoting to LLMs after the collapse of crypto. This doesn't seem like a principled stance they are taking.

Re: Cryptocurrencies add nothing useful to society, says chip-maker Nvidia

#33
post #27

Rather than collapsing, Ethereum sought to reduce the energy footprint and they did. Now Nvidia is angry that nobody wants to pay a premium for a 4090 that catches fire.

Not really. 4090s are flying off the shelves.

Still, demand would likely be a double or more if ETH hadn't made the switch.

Re: Cryptocurrencies add nothing useful to society, says chip-maker Nvidia

#34
> “All this crypto stuff, it needed parallel processing, and [Nvidia] is the best, so people just programmed it to use for this purpose. They bought a lot of stuff, and then eventually it collapsed, because it doesn’t bring anything useful for society. AI does,” Kagan told the Guardian.

No, the crypto mining industry collapsed because the largest GPU-mined cryptocurrency (Ethereum) removed the ability for people to mine it with GPUs. Crypto obviously does not "need parallel processing" in the way that Nvidia GPUs provide it, because Ethereum removed that requirement entirely.

Nvidia's statement is like a shovel manufacturer declaring gold mining dead because people are no longer buying shovels (because they moved on to backhoes).

Re: Cryptocurrencies add nothing useful to society, says chip-maker Nvidia

#35
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“user of cryptocurrencies”. It’s scammers, ramsomers, speculators and illicit drugs all the way down.

[flagged]

This is like the gingerbread man in the gingerbread house meme.

Re: Cryptocurrencies add nothing useful to society, says chip-maker Nvidia

#36
post #28

“I never believed that [crypto] is something that will do something good for humanity. You know, people do crazy things, but they buy your stuff, you sell them stuff” - Michael Kagan, Nvidia CTO If I sold shovels and meth users liked to dig swimming pools in their back yards at 3:00 am I might say my shovels weren't doing anything good for humanity, but I'd be happy to sell them shovels.

Reminds me of when a sushi chef apologized to me for the sea urchin tasting nasty: "Sorry, it's out of season. It's not fresh." "Why do you sell it out of season?" "People still buy it."

“Search isn’t a business!”

Blockchain and Web3 ended up mostly being zero sum games. But that doesn’t mean it’s not capable of being so much more. Who remembers the silly and tags? The Web has come a long way. And personally, for all its faults, I find Web3 better than Web2 in terms of economics - rather than giant server farms and Big Tech monopolies, we have UniSwap and Aave Marketplace and Filecoin etc. The network is owned by the participants and no shareholder class to extract rents.

Well, ironically AI can be a far bigger negative for society than blockchain.

AI can literally destroy all our systems. Its upside may be far lower than its downside.

Yet HN loves AI and hates blockchain. Predictable this will be silently downvoted into oblivion because it challenges that narrative, but I would have definitely preferred actual substantive discussion.

Re: Cryptocurrencies add nothing useful to society, says chip-maker Nvidia

#37
post #22

Who is "society"? Users of cryptocurrencies obviously find them useful, or hope they will be in future. The alternative to cryptocurrency and blockchain contracts are global alliances that make trading in dollars easy in all important markets and enforce contracts across jurisdictions. Billions of people who are not part of these alliances are left out and the rest are reliant on US/Europe remaining leading superpowe…

“user of cryptocurrencies”. It’s scammers, ramsomers, speculators and illicit drugs all the way down.

Hey, at least people who buy drugs with bitcoin are actually getting tangible goods. Despite everything, TSR might have been the most "legitimate" use of cryptocurrency to date.

Re: Cryptocurrencies add nothing useful to society, says chip-maker Nvidia

#38

“I never believed that [crypto] is something that will do something good for humanity. You know, people do crazy things, but they buy your stuff, you sell them stuff” - Michael Kagan, Nvidia CTO If I sold shovels and meth users liked to dig swimming pools in their back yards at 3:00 am I might say my shovels weren't doing anything good for humanity, but I'd be happy to sell them shovels.

What if they're digging graves?

Re: Cryptocurrencies add nothing useful to society, says chip-maker Nvidia

#39
post #36
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of when a sushi chef apologized to me for the sea urchin tasting nasty: "Sorry, it's out of season. It's not fresh." "Why do you sell it out of season?" "People still buy it."

“Search isn’t a business!” Blockchain and Web3 ended up mostly being zero sum games. But that doesn’t mean it’s not capable of being so much more. Who remembers the silly and tags? The Web has come a long way. And personally, for all its faults, I find Web3 better than Web2 in terms of economics - rather than giant server farms and Big Tech monopolies, we have UniSwap and Aave Marketplace and Filecoin etc. The networ…

AI also suffers front the grey goo and paperclip maximizing issues too.

Re: Cryptocurrencies add nothing useful to society, says chip-maker Nvidia

#40

Most crypto currencies don't and probably never will. But those such as Bitcoin that are the most decentralized and censorship resistant are crucial to those living under authoritarian regimes and whose currencies are going through significant debasement. The mad rush to make a quick buck and the propaganda from those in power have distorted the original intent behind crypto. Also, corporations such as Nvidia that de…

That's just the problem. It's very popular with people who want to bypass the law. Occasionally that's crucial and laudable. Usually it's drugs and illegal pornography. Which makes its use for anything legal dubious.

If it ever could have broken that stigma, the swarm of speculators and scammers made that impossible.

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