Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access • Hacker News Board

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#471

Post by javajosh » Sun, Mar 26, 2023, 1:58 PM UTC

judge2020 wrote: post #172

falcolas wrote: post #62

Is it a bad time to mention that sites like stack overflow, discord, sub stack, medium, Reddit, hacker news, GitHub, YouTube, and so forth have the same traits - the same identifying markers - as what we consider traditional social media sites? How the bill defines social media: 10) (a) "Social media platform" means an online forum that a social media company 160 makes available for an account holder to: 161 (i) crea…

> There’s exceptions for email, Netflix, Amazon, news, traditional media kinds of sites. The fact that there are 20 categories of services exempted shows that this is a terrible bill that is based on punishing specific actors and not regulating data privacy or child wellbeing in a meaningful way. for reference, line 165 to 224 of that link are the exceptions: "Social media platform" does not include an online service…

>(J) is a carve-out for linkedin, wonderful.

It would be utterly fascinating if LinkedIn became Utah's de facto LGBTQ online space.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#472

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Mar 26, 2023, 2:00 PM UTC

judge2020 wrote: post #254

dragonwriter wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as DMs can only be between 2 people. Nothing in the law restricts to DMs being between two people, it just distinguishes them from public content.

As I understand it, > (I) shared between the sender and the recipient; 171 (II) only visible to the sender and the recipient; and 172 (III) are not posted publicly; maybe sender and recipient can be considered a group chat with multiple recipients? Otherwise you wouldn't classify something like Kik or Discord as social media.

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Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#473

Post by stametseater » Sun, Mar 26, 2023, 2:06 PM UTC

mrcwinn wrote: post #110

The Democrats have their own flaws certainly, but I’m having such a hard time finding a consistent ideology among conservatives. Free speech absolutism, mixed with parent choice, no choice for women, censorship for some kinds of speech, anti-regulation limited government but strong regulation of tech products. I just can’t square any of this.

> I’m having such a hard time finding a consistent ideology among conservatives

I'm having a hard time figuring out why you would expect to find one. The people who "vote conservative" do so for numerous different sorts of reasons, conservationism is not their root ideology, it is downstream of other disparate ideologies. A conservative voter who is Mormon has different motivations than a conservative voter who is a secular small business owner, and both have a different root ideology from an old school Catholic or an anti-communist Cuban-American.

Knowing this as I'm sure you do, why would you expect "conservatism", aka "voting for republicans", to be a consistent ideology? The people who do so were never all coming from the same ideological position in the first place.

Btw, the group of people who vote for democratic candidates also do so for a wide array of reasons, and don't all share much of a common and consistent ideology either. Welcome to the two-party system, in which innumerable ideologies get pigeonholed into two bins.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#474

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Mar 26, 2023, 2:08 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #170

falcolas wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What part of the bill provides them an exception?

>What part of the bill provides them an exception? For Github? 10(b)(i)(N), to the extent that source code files are “documents”. For Stack Overflow? 10(b)(i)(J), which was probably written for LinkedIn specifically.

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Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#475

Post by frob » Sun, Mar 26, 2023, 2:09 PM UTC

judge2020 wrote: post #172

falcolas wrote: post #62

Is it a bad time to mention that sites like stack overflow, discord, sub stack, medium, Reddit, hacker news, GitHub, YouTube, and so forth have the same traits - the same identifying markers - as what we consider traditional social media sites? How the bill defines social media: 10) (a) "Social media platform" means an online forum that a social media company 160 makes available for an account holder to: 161 (i) crea…

> There’s exceptions for email, Netflix, Amazon, news, traditional media kinds of sites. The fact that there are 20 categories of services exempted shows that this is a terrible bill that is based on punishing specific actors and not regulating data privacy or child wellbeing in a meaningful way. for reference, line 165 to 224 of that link are the exceptions: "Social media platform" does not include an online service…

And (T) is a carve-out for the genealogy industry run by the Morman church

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#476

Post by frob » Sun, Mar 26, 2023, 2:12 PM UTC

MacsHeadroom wrote: post #353

pyuser583 wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems they’re worried about peer to peer interactions. My experience regulating my daughters internet access is that interactions with other kids have the highest potential for toxicity. They seem ok with kids passively consuming a stream of adult generated content. They’re also excluding SaaS which just emulates desktop software. I think that’s about right.

Guess we should ban all teens from stack overflow, LinkedIn, and hacker news because kids might have toxic interactions online if we don't. Let's also not mention how the only way to reliably do this is to require identity verification from all adults. Get ready to scan your drivers license to post on hacker news and every other site (except traditional news sites apparently).

Utah is small enough that some sites may just geoblock Utah. I know if I had to choose between collecting every user's ID ever and just adding a block list, I'd go with the second.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#477

Post by stametseater » Sun, Mar 26, 2023, 2:15 PM UTC

geraldwhen wrote: post #398

genewitch wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watch my son play Roblox sometimes. The chat is heavily censored. He also learned most countries, their capitals, and their flags. And that was just a few servers with "country balls". I find the YouTube videos involving those far more insidious, because children don't really understand biting sarcasm and satire as well as adults, and I'll often make him switch videos. But I haven't noticed anything necessarily har…

But have you actually played Roblox? It’s absolute toxic trash. Almost every single game is a front for purchases, and those that aren’t are barely games at all. Many Minecraft mods are one time purchases that are way, way better than anything Roblox produces, but Minecraft is so buggy that it’s truly not suitable for kids, or anyone for that matter. Minecraft will continuously corrupt saves, so you need to fully rei…

> Many Minecraft mods are one time purchases

> Minecraft is so buggy that it’s truly not suitable for kids, or anyone for that matter.

> Minecraft will continuously corrupt saves you need to fully reinstall the game

I don't recognize the game you are describing. I've never heard of a paid minecraft mod, they're all free. Buggy? It has some odd in-game behavior that you could reasonably call bugs, but the only crashes I've ever gotten were during modding, caused by incompatible or low quality mods. Corrupting saves? I've never experienced it, nor can I imagine how a corrupted save would be addressed by reinstalling the game. What is the supposed connection between a save file being corrupted and needing to reinstall the entire game?

You've obviously got some strange prejudices about this game which simply don't resemble reality.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#478

Post by tzs » Sun, Mar 26, 2023, 2:18 PM UTC

nonethewiser wrote: post #449

heavyset_go wrote: post #306

I feel like this is a response to the exponential popularity of sites like r/exmormon among younger generations. For example, look at these exceptions. It seems like organic, unapproved discussion between users is what the bill is trying to stifle: > (D) news, sports, entertainment, or other content that is preselected by the provider and not user generated, ... (Q) to permit comments on a digital news website, if th…

> (D) news, sports, entertainment, or other content that is preselected by the provider and not user generated, ... (Q) to permit comments on a digital news website, if the news content is posted only by the provider of the digital news website Sounds more like they are protecting against children consuming toxic or mind numbing content.

> Sounds more like they are protecting against children consuming toxic or mind numbing content.

If that was the case it would not exclude comments on digital news websites. Those are usually a cesspool.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#479

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Mar 26, 2023, 2:20 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #188

falcolas wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of which clearly protect GH or SO, the subjects of this thread branch.

> None of which clearly protect GH or SO, the subjects of this thread branch. I disagree, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35310413 (especially considering that because this law creates a penalty, and because it restricts speech, its definitions of the covered parties and conduct must be read narrowly – and its exceptions read broadly [0] – per the rule of lenity in statutory construction.) [0] if, in the fir…

[deleted]

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#480

Post by lo_zamoyski » Sun, Mar 26, 2023, 2:22 PM UTC

_heimdall wrote: post #430

EGreg wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does it matter whether it has more than 5 million accounts? Why not 50K accounts?

Because every law we write is ultimately arbitrary. Lines have to be drawn through massive swaths of gray area, those lines are entirely arbitrary and should be a sign that making laws like this is pointless. The 90s Era gun ban that Biden was so proud of is a perfect example. They had to include so many caveats and arbitrary descriptions of what makes a gun an "assault rifle" that manufacturers just dodged the rules…

Marginalium: Some laws are arbitrary, not all. They may all be contingent, which is different from arbitrary. Ultimately, law is a prudential determination of moral principle.