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Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

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Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#401

Post by chudmeister »

kyledrake wrote: post #198
smooth_remmy wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That is a highly Mormon run state that has strong stances on how you should live your life. Even if you are a "goi" (I use the word loosely to illustrate the cultural metaphor in a us v them mentality) to them. I think you're crossing a line here. You are accusing the Mormons in Utah of having a us-versus-them mentality. But your own comment tries to turn readers against Mormons. Never forget: The Missouri Executiv…

That was 185 years ago, how charitable have Utah mormons been this year to the LGBT community? The unspoken intentions of this bill given the state's recent legislative priorities are absolutely horrifying and far more deserving of criticism and deep skepticism than charity. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/8:_The_Mormon_Proposition

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Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#402

Post by arbol »

McSwag wrote: post #380
komali2 wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of your ethical stance on the subject, it would be a good exercise to consider who you're ok with determining what kind of content your children can view. Allowing a government to step in to pass laws like this is a draconian step too far. As a parent do you not already have all the tools you need to ensure your children don't use tik Tok? From the light touch and mundane, using the built in features of th…

I do think this a reasonable rebuttal, but there must be some middle ground here. Generally speaking, I can block TikTok sure, but because it’s so ubiquitous, my kids are ostracized because all their friends have access to it, they still pass around the content like drugs, alcohol and tobacco. It almost becomes one of those things that because they’re not allowed to have access to it, it does just as much damage, soc…

The overhead of managing content restrictions on families devices is a very good point. I'll be reaching this stage soon and I'm not looking forward to this additional task.

I also think state sponsored content moderation should be used to restrict access to harmful online media as opposed to lumbering this task on individuals. As you've mentioned, some parents need this enforced upon them.

If we were talking about vaping, which is still highly unregulated and available for children to buy, I'm sure the majority would be in agreement about age restrictions. The fact that we're talking about preventing psychological addiction and trauma makes it harder for people to agree on the harmful effects of this type of content. It's simply not as visible as the huge plumes of oil-steam breathed out by every 12 year old in a bus stop these days.

However, I don't agree with the implementation of content moderation proposed by Utah state. It's totally unworkable and poorly thought through.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#403

Post by xboxnolifes »

watwut wrote: post #377
morbia wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gay guy here. I have always said that these sort of laws designed to protect children will do precisely the opposite. An LGBTQ child is effectively forcibly outed by this law, potentially before they've come to terms with their sexuality / gender themselves. Whilst I don't doubt social media causes a lot of harm on children growing up, giving parents full access to your messages is not the solution. In my opinion, ba…

They are not designed to protect kids. There is always campaign designed to elicit fear and contempt and then they take controlling laws. Talking about it as if safety was a goal instead of control is just falling into their lie.

It's never about the kids protection/rights. Kids don't vote, parents do. Nearly every proposed law marketed as protecting kids is actually about increasing parent or state control over kids.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#404

Post by 7sidedmarble »

geraldwhen wrote: post #398
genewitch wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watch my son play Roblox sometimes. The chat is heavily censored. He also learned most countries, their capitals, and their flags. And that was just a few servers with "country balls". I find the YouTube videos involving those far more insidious, because children don't really understand biting sarcasm and satire as well as adults, and I'll often make him switch videos. But I haven't noticed anything necessarily har…

But have you actually played Roblox? It’s absolute toxic trash. Almost every single game is a front for purchases, and those that aren’t are barely games at all. Many Minecraft mods are one time purchases that are way, way better than anything Roblox produces, but Minecraft is so buggy that it’s truly not suitable for kids, or anyone for that matter. Minecraft will continuously corrupt saves, so you need to fully rei…

>Minecraft is so buggy that it’s truly not suitable for kids,

>My kids aren’t allowed to play games I wouldn’t play.

Nothing says 'hacker mindset' like your parents deciding for you what games you should and shouldn't like.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#405

Post by 7sidedmarble »

It absolutely boggles my mind how this website can purport to be about hacker ethos, and yet every time a thread like this comes up you get tons of commenters talking about how they are going to tightly control which games and websites there kids have access to, what kind of devices they have access to, when they have access to them, etc.

Myself, I think like a lot of people on this website, grew up with basically unfettered access to the internet and computers. And that period of time today seems like a golden age of the Internet. Maybe you think the internet today is just so insidiously dangerous compared to them, but I think that's just naive. The internet had a lot of fucked up content when I was accessing it at that age too. Our kids are going to grow up thinking the time they used the internet as a teen was the golden age.

I'm not saying unfettered access is what you should do, but maybe imagine yourself in your kids shoes, only it was the 90s with home computers instead of the 2000s with apps and social media?

You may have great arguments about the net harm of social media or apps you don't happen to like, but they are not going to resonate with your kids if you approach it via "I know better then you." If you're on this forum, you are very capable of setting up home wifi that you can monitor. Why not see what's a problem for them first and address it then?

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#406

Post by corobo »

7sidedmarble wrote: post #405

It absolutely boggles my mind how this website can purport to be about hacker ethos, and yet every time a thread like this comes up you get tons of commenters talking about how they are going to tightly control which games and websites there kids have access to, what kind of devices they have access to, when they have access to them, etc. Myself, I think like a lot of people on this website, grew up with basically un…

My parents and schools having an "I know better than you" attitude and blocking sites/access is how I learned how to bypass those restrictions in fairness. Within a year I knew more than they did about tech, and they could no longer block me without physically removing cables (good luck with that in a 5G-enabled world!)

They're just setting up the next generation of hacker!

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#407

Post by nine_k »

xboxnolifes wrote: post #403
watwut wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are not designed to protect kids. There is always campaign designed to elicit fear and contempt and then they take controlling laws. Talking about it as if safety was a goal instead of control is just falling into their lie.

It's never about the kids protection/rights. Kids don't vote, parents do. Nearly every proposed law marketed as protecting kids is actually about increasing parent or state control over kids.

It's always important to remember that the tools that enable freedom, like voting, can be used against freedom, if enough of the population does not value it.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#408

Post by dmos62 »

7sidedmarble wrote: post #405

It absolutely boggles my mind how this website can purport to be about hacker ethos, and yet every time a thread like this comes up you get tons of commenters talking about how they are going to tightly control which games and websites there kids have access to, what kind of devices they have access to, when they have access to them, etc. Myself, I think like a lot of people on this website, grew up with basically un…

Are you going to take the same stance with your kids and tobacco or alcohol? Why not see what's the problem for them first instead of pretending pretending we know better? Come on. Regulating social media exposure is somewhere between basic hygiene and diet control.

Hacker ethos? Hackers use the unbeaten path to solve problems. That's what a hacker is to me. Is a hacker for you someone against all forms of moderation?

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#409

Post by watwut »

Dalewyn wrote: post #396
watwut wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes abuse much worst. Also, this is about teenagers - 16-18 years old. Parent demanding full control is neither normal nor healthy nor something historically expected.

Teenagers are still minors and legally beholden to their parents or guardians. Parents should have full access to their childrens' circumstances because parenting occasionally requires such privileged information. Whether parents would make full use of such authority is another story, of course. In most cases they probably won't, but the option to exercise must exist in order for parents to parent properly.

I think that this is simply not true. Actually, starting 16 parents dont have access to what was said in psychologist office anymore. Nor should they. Parents should not have full access to their teenage children diaries nor to all their communication.

> Whether parents would make full use of such authority is another story, of course

The most abusive parents would use that access.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#410

Post by base698 »

7sidedmarble wrote: post #405

It absolutely boggles my mind how this website can purport to be about hacker ethos, and yet every time a thread like this comes up you get tons of commenters talking about how they are going to tightly control which games and websites there kids have access to, what kind of devices they have access to, when they have access to them, etc. Myself, I think like a lot of people on this website, grew up with basically un…

> dangerous compared to them, but I think that's just naive. The internet had a lot of fucked up content when I was accessing it at that age too.

Same. However, my impression is that the focus here is on the volume of access not the type of content. We didn't carry the internet around in our pocket. Allowing us to use it on the bathroom, waiting for the bus, or even in class during a lecture.

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