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India Shut Down Cell Service for 27M During a Manhunt

wired.com

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Re: India Shut Down Cell Service for 27M During a Manhunt

#41

Post by ummonk »

honkler wrote: post #14
darth_avocado wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definition of a domestic terrorist per the FBI: Violent, criminal acts committed by individuals and/or groups to further ideological goals stemming from domestic influences, such as those of a political, religious, social, racial, or environmental nature. I feel a lot of arguments on “that’s not terrorism” come in when it doesn’t affect the western countries. Just because an organization hasn’t committed any recent a…

[flagged]

This is even more ridiculous than calling Amritpal Singh a terrorist. The pogroms / religious riots in 2002 weren't genocide, and Modi did not perpetrate them, though he should bear responsibility for allowing them to happen on his watch either out of malice or incompetence. This has been well established by court inquiries.

Re: India Shut Down Cell Service for 27M During a Manhunt

#42

Post by ilrwbwrkhv »

Unfortunately India is no longer a democracy. The religious nuts took over and it already had a history of old British laws about "purity" and things not to say.

It is really sad to see the world's largest democracy fall.

Scams, poor work ethic in the populace, and a lack of a country wide shared belief structure caused all this.

Re: India Shut Down Cell Service for 27M During a Manhunt

#43

Post by ummonk »

darth_avocado wrote: post #10
ummonk wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Separatist yes. I wouldn't go as far as calling him a terrorist until allegations of planned terrorist attacks are confirmed by neutral parties. While he's running an org that has voolent clashed with police, there hasn't been any proper terrorist attacks by Khalistanis this time around a la the bombing of Air India Flight 182 (and attempted bombing of Flight 301) back in the day. More accurate to just call him a vio…

Definition of a domestic terrorist per the FBI: Violent, criminal acts committed by individuals and/or groups to further ideological goals stemming from domestic influences, such as those of a political, religious, social, racial, or environmental nature. I feel a lot of arguments on “that’s not terrorism” come in when it doesn’t affect the western countries. Just because an organization hasn’t committed any recent a…

The FBI uses an expansive definition of "terrorism" for obvious self-serving reasons. In reality, violent criminal acts to further ideological goals aren't terrorism unless done to actually spread terror.

Re: India Shut Down Cell Service for 27M During a Manhunt

#44

Post by darth_avocado »

notdang wrote: post #40
darth_avocado wrote: post #4

The shutdown aside, the “activist” is a separatist and terrorist. Quite the use of words there by wired and even Wikipedia. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amritpal_Singh_(activist)

Is being a separatist something bad? For example imagine you are part of the USSR, but not Russia, instead you are in Latvia. Not wanting to be part of USSR, makes you are a separatist. Is there something bad in it?

Not necessarily, but can be. What if instead of USSR, you substitute US or Sweden? What if you some (not all) of the Muslims in Sweden want a separate Muslim country from Sweden? Or some (not all) of the Mormons one day decide they want a separate mormon country away from United States?

Re: India Shut Down Cell Service for 27M During a Manhunt

#45

Post by lostmsu »

darth_avocado wrote: post #44
notdang wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is being a separatist something bad? For example imagine you are part of the USSR, but not Russia, instead you are in Latvia. Not wanting to be part of USSR, makes you are a separatist. Is there something bad in it?

Not necessarily, but can be. What if instead of USSR, you substitute US or Sweden? What if you some (not all) of the Muslims in Sweden want a separate Muslim country from Sweden? Or some (not all) of the Mormons one day decide they want a separate mormon country away from United States?

You then vote or fight for your freedom. Nothing is bad about either.

Re: India Shut Down Cell Service for 27M During a Manhunt

#46

Post by darth_avocado »

linuxftw wrote: post #30
darth_avocado wrote: post #4

The shutdown aside, the “activist” is a separatist and terrorist. Quite the use of words there by wired and even Wikipedia. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amritpal_Singh_(activist)

Separatist movements start when people are oppressed and their grievances aren't addressed. Everyone acts like lines drawn on maps 60+ years ago are some holy sacrament. Let the region hold self determination votes.

Separatists movements don’t always start with oppression and grievances, they also start as a way to gain power, wealth or other benefits, be it individuals, groups or political parties.

Re: India Shut Down Cell Service for 27M During a Manhunt

#47

Post by darth_avocado »

lostmsu wrote: post #45
darth_avocado wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily, but can be. What if instead of USSR, you substitute US or Sweden? What if you some (not all) of the Muslims in Sweden want a separate Muslim country from Sweden? Or some (not all) of the Mormons one day decide they want a separate mormon country away from United States?

You then vote or fight for your freedom. Nothing is bad about either.

Fair. How do you propose a vote looks like? Who gets to vote and who doesn’t?

Say a specific ethnicity is 2% of the population in Sweden and they want a separate country. How do you propose the vote goes through? Who gets a say in this?

Re: India Shut Down Cell Service for 27M During a Manhunt

#48

Post by lostmsu »

darth_avocado wrote: post #47
lostmsu wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You then vote or fight for your freedom. Nothing is bad about either.

Fair. How do you propose a vote looks like? Who gets to vote and who doesn’t? Say a specific ethnicity is 2% of the population in Sweden and they want a separate country. How do you propose the vote goes through? Who gets a say in this?

That's too many questions in a completely made up scenario.

If you see a problem with the person, name it. But being a separatist is at most stupidity depending on circumstances. Can't jail for that.

Re: India Shut Down Cell Service for 27M During a Manhunt

#49

Post by darth_avocado »

lostmsu wrote: post #48
darth_avocado wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair. How do you propose a vote looks like? Who gets to vote and who doesn’t? Say a specific ethnicity is 2% of the population in Sweden and they want a separate country. How do you propose the vote goes through? Who gets a say in this?

That's too many questions in a completely made up scenario. If you see a problem with the person, name it. But being a separatist is at most stupidity depending on circumstances. Can't jail for that.

That’s not a made up scenario. Sikhs are less than 2% of the population of India. And the Khalistani movement does not even represent majority of the Sikhs in India. And the movement has a notorious past of conducting violent activities that can be described with the T word.

So it’s not at most stupidity. The stakes are higher. And you can be jailed for being associated with that.

I’d welcome any debate and am open to changing my mind, but you’ll have to answer questions that do matter before you dismiss them.

Re: India Shut Down Cell Service for 27M During a Manhunt

#50

Post by lostmsu »

darth_avocado wrote: post #49
lostmsu wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's too many questions in a completely made up scenario. If you see a problem with the person, name it. But being a separatist is at most stupidity depending on circumstances. Can't jail for that.

That’s not a made up scenario. Sikhs are less than 2% of the population of India. And the Khalistani movement does not even represent majority of the Sikhs in India. And the movement has a notorious past of conducting violent activities that can be described with the T word. So it’s not at most stupidity. The stakes are higher. And you can be jailed for being associated with that. I’d welcome any debate and am open t…

There's nothing to argue about. The fact that "being associated with a movement" is a crime you can be jailed for just shows you live in a totalitarian country.

Every single movement has violent elements, that's not a sufficient ground to jail for participation.

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