Judge decides against Internet Archive • Hacker News Board

Re: Judge decides against Internet Archive

#461

Post by politelemon » Sat, Mar 25, 2023, 9:14 AM UTC

uda wrote: post #408

Initially I'm enraged against the publishers, the judge and the system in general as many of you, but they are not the issue, while I can't talk on behalf of IA, I don't see this as a fight against the publishers, but a fight against broken business models flourishing because and protected by broken laws meant to protect earlier broken business models The current law is broken, we know that, but most of us don't gras…

> and then we expect the judge to "save" us from the broken law instead of holding the legislators accountable

Why can't it be both? All this does is keep us busy looking where the 'root cause' is and never actually solve anything because the mechanisms to fix those things don't exist... all the while others reap its benefits.

Re: Judge decides against Internet Archive

#462

Post by Timwi » Sat, Mar 25, 2023, 9:18 AM UTC

nonethewiser wrote: post #113

FpUser wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"I didn't agree with it then and I don't fully agree with it now, but it can work." I actually do agree with it. Same reason as jury nullification. If enough people (jury members in this case) believe that the law / particular application is unjust then fuck it. In nullification the government must give in. I do not see why it should be any different in general. The key here should be what constitutes "enough"

This has a name. Mob rule.

That's just a derogatory term for democracy.

Re: Judge decides against Internet Archive

#463

Post by TaylorAlexander » Sat, Mar 25, 2023, 9:18 AM UTC

cat_plus_plus wrote: post #285

Intellectual property is an unnatural, made up construct that will one day be seen as ridiculous as absolute monarchy is today. If we are going to allow it and penalize people who are doing natural human things like sharing with friends, there has to be a specific benefit to society in every instance. For example, pay taxes on copyrights and patents, increasing every year to reflect disturbance caused to society.

I think of it like trying to restrict what your neighbor can have for lunch. That’s not a thing we’re allowed to do today and the concept makes no sense to someone today. But you can limit what your neighbor engineers!

Re: Judge decides against Internet Archive

#464

Post by em-bee » Sat, Mar 25, 2023, 9:19 AM UTC

ncallaway wrote: post #218

em-bee wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

children don't go to school on sunday, having the right to take sunday off instead of some other weekday is a benefit for families.

I feel like this is the best argument for it but… it leaves a lot of holes? What about Saturdays, or other non-school days? And… just protection for retail workers? Is there a reason it wouldn’t apply to all workers below a certain pay range (or maybe it did, and the “no shopping” rule is just a shorthand?)

it does apply to all employees.

and actually, in germany for example, the rule is not that shops must be closed. you can open your shop if you can run it yourself, without any employees help.

depending on the country, saturdays can be school days, but generally nowadays, the rule extended to saturday as well, actually, with the exception of retail. it used to be that saturdays were half work days. and of national holidays are equal to sundays.

Re: Judge decides against Internet Archive

#465

Post by PinkRidingHood » Sat, Mar 25, 2023, 9:21 AM UTC

tsimionescu wrote: post #406

eyelidlessness wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what you can't do is make a copy that you give to someone else while simultaneously retaining access to the original (or another copy). I’m pretty sure I can do that. > the way libraries work is by relinquishing posession I almost included that I could shred my copy, keeping only the digital equivalent, and still retain the same rights to the work and lending it. Any individual in IA’s position could do this withou…

> I’m pretty sure I can do that. Not legally. > I almost included that I could shred my copy, keeping only the digital equivalent, and still retain the same rights to the work and lending it. This is the part that is not true. For example, you are free to transcribe a book onto a parchement and read it that way, and store the parchment separately from the book for archival purposes, and keep the parchement even if th…

Does that mean I can take the book, copy it, then resell it, keeping the copy?

Re: Judge decides against Internet Archive

#466

Post by kybernetikos » Sat, Mar 25, 2023, 9:22 AM UTC

iudqnolq wrote: post #69

dragonwriter wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They didnt offer the full books afaik. They got sued, and the settlement didn’t allow them to offer the full books except for-purchase with a particular revenue sharing arrangement.

...and then the court threw out the settlement as unfair, and then the court ruled in Google's favor. But the court noted that Google was right on the edge of fair use. Google notably prevented the previews from being usable as a replacement for an original purchase by only displaying 1/8 of a page snippets, blacklisting 1 snippet per page, blacklisting every tenth page completely, and blacklisting works where a sing…

I still feel like if I'd done something similar as an individual I would not have got away with it.

Say I downloaded z-library and wrote a search system that only showed me snippets (for searching). How likely do you think courts would find in my favour?

Re: Judge decides against Internet Archive

#467

Post by em-bee » Sat, Mar 25, 2023, 9:23 AM UTC

nulbyte wrote: post #254

nikau wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a fixed day off allows people to plan leisure activities with friends and family as it was guaranteed they too would also have the day off.

I don't think that answers the question. Suppose I want to go to the movies on my day off. I can't, precisely because everyone else is off, too.

entertainment venues, museums, restaurants, etc are usually getting an exception here. public transport and emergency services too. can't shut the country down.

i am actually curious how they do that in israel where the jewish law not to work on sabbath is taken much more seriously.

Re: Judge decides against Internet Archive

#468

Post by Timwi » Sat, Mar 25, 2023, 9:26 AM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #12

alexfromapex wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The system shouldn't require lobbying to get results that benefit the greater good

> system shouldn't require lobbying to get results that benefit the greater good It does when there is disagreement over what constitutes the greater good.

There is actually no such disagreement. The corporations and copyright mafia are very open about the fact that their profits are more important to them than the common good.

Re: Judge decides against Internet Archive

#469

Post by prox » Sat, Mar 25, 2023, 9:27 AM UTC

komali2 wrote: post #438

uda wrote: post #408

Initially I'm enraged against the publishers, the judge and the system in general as many of you, but they are not the issue, while I can't talk on behalf of IA, I don't see this as a fight against the publishers, but a fight against broken business models flourishing because and protected by broken laws meant to protect earlier broken business models The current law is broken, we know that, but most of us don't gras…

What actions can Americans possibly take given the captured two party system and drawing back of voting rights? Not to mention the wildly unrepresentative government, wherein for example more people can vote for Trump in California than Texas in 2020 yet each of those person's votes are functionally meaningless, or, republicans can fail for over two decades to win a popular vote and still elect three presidents in th…

Getting involved, grass roots style. The feeling of powerlessness is exactly the way you become inert to do anything. “What can I do.”

Politics work from the local to the national, so getting involved locally is a good thing, or organizations that work to promote the ideals you want to see in the world.

Re: Judge decides against Internet Archive

#470

Post by jb1991 » Sat, Mar 25, 2023, 9:32 AM UTC

goodlinks wrote: post #452

jb1991 wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money is also an unnatural construct, most of civilization has succeeded and advanced due to abstract constructs, and this is one of mankind’s strengths. Learn more about this in the book Sapiens.

Have you read the ragged trousered phillanthropists?

No I haven’t, but if you’re suggesting that these so-called unnatural constructs can be damaging to the world, that is certainly true, but the flipside is that they also lead to great progress.