US bars friends over Twitter joke • Hacker News Board

Re: US bars friends over Twitter joke

#181

Post by kstenerud » Mon, Jan 30, 2012, 5:30 PM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #121

sudonim wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the US. Someone put me on a list of people who retweet wikileaks tweets and I'm concerned. Our policy towards visitors and immigrants has been increasingly hostile. Citizens get it a little better, but increasingly bad too. Minor quibble with your last sentence: > I would not consider going to the US for a vacation. Thankfully there are five other continents to visit. Mexico, Canada, Cuba, Dominican Republi…

Antarctica isn't really a hot (no pun intended) vacation area. People go there to work and conduct research, but there's no hotels or resorts. Besides Canada, the rest on your list don't scream "freedom" or "welcoming to foreigners" to me. I'm not saying Cuba isn't an interesting place to visit, but a Cuban vacation isn't really comparable to a US vacation in terms of sight-seeing and luxury. Though as an American, m…

At the risk of coming off as crass and vulgar, Cuba is a shithole.

The food's terrible, smog in Havana is the worst I've seen anywhere (most cars don't have mufflers and are poorly tuned), the locals try to screw you over any chance they get (Beijing Tea Room type scams are commonplace, especially in bars - just don't talk to anyone who acts friendly and tries to bring you into a shop, and NEVER EVER accept local currency or any gifts), and the whole place is so dilapidated (except for the small touristy section of town) that it's amazing the buildings are still standing (most balconies in concrete buildings have long since collapsed). I watched in Trinidad as local workers dug up part of a cobblestone road, then filled it back with plain dirt. Most of the roads people have worked on are completely washed away from the rain (the ones they haven't touched are still fine).

You can have good food and a pleasant stay if you go to a resort, but then what's the point? You could be at any resort in the world and have the same cookie-cutter experience.

Oh, and if you do go, bring a currency OTHER than USD because the Cuban government controls all currency conversion, and trades USD at a severe disadvantage compared to other currencies.

Re: US bars friends over Twitter joke

#182

Post by tkahn6 » Mon, Jan 30, 2012, 5:31 PM UTC

blhack wrote: post #175

How the hell is the on the front page of HN? The Sun is a rag newspaper from The UK, it is barely factual at best. I have for some reason lost my ability to flag stories, but..."flagged" in spirit.

I have no idea what the fuck is going on here. Comments on here are similar to what you'd find on reddit. The story is exactly the kind of thing you'd find on reddit.

Re: US bars friends over Twitter joke

#183

Post by galadriel » Mon, Jan 30, 2012, 5:33 PM UTC

tokenadult wrote: post #170

Maybe it's time to differ from hivemind here. I should make clear that I cherish my right as an American, which I exercise liberally at home and abroad, to criticize the American government in general. I also like to call out specific elected or appointed officials (for example, the President, whoever he is each term) any time I think they are making mistakes. Participants on Hacker News who are also my Facebook frie…

While I understand your concern about foreign travelers, I think you are a bit naive in defending acts of your border security. It should concern you that these people have absolute authority to perform any search and seizures at their whims, and also can deny entry to anyone. Legally, a US citizen cannot be denied entry, but they will use any possible power they have (which is vast) to keep you out of your country if they want to. [1] All in name of freedom. So watch out next time you use your freedom of speech while returning to your own country.

US is still a country of nice people, and my interaction with border official has been nothing but pleasant. Although there is a lot more security theater than when travelling to other countries, the officials from TSA, CBP and other agencies have been courteous and professional. However, it would still be a bad idea if you think that denying entry on jokes is fine.

As to your claims of US being #1 in freedom and no place for anyone else to go, I am pretty sure that countries in Europe will be more receptive to your entry even after all your jokes, because they usually don't pretend to have a security theater to "protect" themselves from "terrorists".

[1] http://www.aclunc.org/issues/government_surveillance/u.s._ci...

Re: US bars friends over Twitter joke

#184

Post by digispaghetti » Mon, Jan 30, 2012, 5:35 PM UTC

buro9 wrote: post #120

Those guys are screwed now. Refusal of access means that they'll never get in on the visa waiver program and any employment in the future that might be with a multi-national will be limited by their ability to travel. They just won't be able to enter the USA without going through an arduously long process every time. I've been telling my friends for the longest time to moderate everything that they say on the interne…

The Kinks were banned from entering the US for 4 years - wasn't such a bad thing for them.

Also, why should we live in a Stasi-like state and change our behaviour.

I've been very critical of the US on my twitter for example, because from the outside the behaviour of the US is that of the later years of the Weimar Republic.

I've know for quite a while it's probably not advisable for me to try enter the US - hell last time I was in Canada (last year) I let my girlfriend go shopping across the border and I stayed back - I didn't even want to enter your country, let alone have to deal with prick border guards who have me on some list.

Re: US bars friends over Twitter joke

#185

Post by drucken » Mon, Jan 30, 2012, 5:37 PM UTC

This is extremely unpleasant given the vast reach of US authorities worldwide, let alone just for entry into the US.

Someone could ruin your life based on just your name just by impersonating you or simply having the same name on social networking while acting in some way an authority finds offensive, even if you yourself have never used it!

It would seem you are actually safer to be the first to create closed and private accounts on Twitter, Facebook, Google+, of your actual name - even when you never ever want to give out your private information, including your name, and will never use the accounts.

Re: US bars friends over Twitter joke

#186

Post by cookiecaper » Mon, Jan 30, 2012, 5:41 PM UTC

nkoren wrote: post #172

cookiecaper wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget Ron Paul as one of Obama's serious opponents that still advocates liberty.

Eh, I'm not sure I'd call him "serious". He's definitely pretty good on some civil liberty issues. Rather less so if you happen to be female, non-white, or gay. Even if that wasn't the case, his understanding of economics is sufficiently loony as to exclude him from serious consideration, at least in my view. In any case, a belief in civil liberties shouldn't even be a discrete political position ; it should be the b…

I'm not sure how familiar you are with Paul's record but he's been a Congressman for 20+ years and has ALWAYS voted consistently. He was one of the three House Republicans who opposed the original PATRIOT Act. He consistently indicates that he will not use executive orders. He understands and has repeated that the president cannot take a country into war without a Congressional declaration of war first. He is constantly citing Constitutional provisions.

There is no reason to assume that Paul will turn evil as soon as he gets the Presidency. This is a different question from whether he will be able to be effective or not, and my belief is that he would not be able to do almost anything he wants to do, and that a Paul presidency would accelerate our plunge into chaos and anarchy, but I don't believe Paul himself would be corrupted and start ignoring the Constitutional stipulations on executive power.

Re: US bars friends over Twitter joke

#187

Post by iamgilesbowkett » Mon, Jan 30, 2012, 5:48 PM UTC

rsynnott wrote: post #48

nextparadigms wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US is done as the "land of the free". It's still very hard for many people to believe it, but it's true. I mean it's 47th place in the world for freedom of press now - 47th! That's far from the beacon of freedom US used to be. Whenever I see the heavily armed and militarized police in US and how they react to protesters, it's like I'm watching news about Russia or something.

When _was_ it the land of the free? The period between giving black people the vote and the PATRIOT act? Even then, it was hardly number one.

As for when, it wasn't the land of the free when they wrote the Constitution, but it was when Jefferson made them add the first ten Amendments. It wasn't if you were a black person who couldn't vote and it was in the period directly following the Civil Rights Movement -- unless you were gay, in which case it became the land of the free after the Stonewall riots. Unless you were gay AND in the military, in which case it just recently became the land of the free when Obama ended "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." Obama made America briefly the land of the free when he was elected and unmade it again very soon after taking office. Unless your hobbies involve consuming any of a number of harmless or nearly harmless plants and/or chemicals, in which case you're going to have to wait until they ratify the 21st Amendment a second time.

Point is, it's always been a fight.

Re: US bars friends over Twitter joke

#188

Post by rdouble » Mon, Jan 30, 2012, 5:52 PM UTC

tokenadult wrote: post #170

Maybe it's time to differ from hivemind here. I should make clear that I cherish my right as an American, which I exercise liberally at home and abroad, to criticize the American government in general. I also like to call out specific elected or appointed officials (for example, the President, whoever he is each term) any time I think they are making mistakes. Participants on Hacker News who are also my Facebook frie…

Considering ALL the trade-offs, which places are really, truly plainly better places to live than the United States?

My sister left Minnesota for Australia 7 years ago and lives down the street from the beach, it's sunny 300 days a year, temp never below 50 degrees. She makes 2.5x what she did in the USA for the same job, only has to work 4 days a week, husband makes six figures as a tradesmen, family gets paid $5K whenever she has a kid, mandated 18 weeks of maternity and PATERNITY leave, government supported superannuation retirement fund, free health care, and savings accounts are getting 6%. Politics are mainly an afterthought, taking up little time on the news and almost never a divisive topic in daily conversation. There's very little religious influence; you're never in a situation where "because the bible said so" is considered a serious argument. She's surrounded by "mate-y" people who take friendship seriously and invite neighbors over for BBQ, and you can get an excellent cappuccino even from the guy in the trailer set up next to the construction site.

Re: US bars friends over Twitter joke

#189

Post by nekojima » Mon, Jan 30, 2012, 5:53 PM UTC

corin_ wrote: post #38

brador wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who provided the list? and can we get a copy of it?

I was under the impression that it came from the government to the event organisers (who we were contracted by), but it's possible it was a list compiled by them based on their experiences (they were a South Korean company who had done a couple of Chinese events before). The list itself was really short, it was more interesting for the fact that our video game streams would be watched closely and that we would get ki…

Usually its the 3TF list, of Tibet, Taiwan, Tiananmen and Falun Gong. There are other occasional topical words that are added, such as early last year Jasmine, including Jasmine tea being banned and just before that in late 2010, references to the Nobel Peace Prize.

Re: US bars friends over Twitter joke

#190

Post by epscylonb » Mon, Jan 30, 2012, 5:55 PM UTC

drats wrote: post #26

Has anyone done a study of how much this is damaging the tourism industry in the USA? I have 1001 places I want to go, but all those in the USA shifted down a lot lower on the list after they started a lot of the airport security/TSA measures. Airport security stuff annoys me to no end in other places too because half of them, or more than half, seem to literally be standing around doing nothing and the other half do…

As I understand it, pre 9/11 air travel domestically in the USA was like hopping on a bus.

Europe had terrorist incidents involving planes long before 9/11. As a consequence air travel (domestic or international) had greater security checks but nowhere near the level we see now in America.

Here is the problem, no amount of security checks can guarantee that there will not be a terrorist incident on a plane.

Even accounting for 9/11, other terrorist incidents on airplanes and plane crashes, the likelihood of you being killed in one is very small.

But the politicians are faced with a decision, respect civil liberties and relax security to common sense levels or ratchet up security to ridiculous levels. If they do the first and a terrorist attack occurs they will get the blame.

Ultimately it is a risk problem, and it is the voters that need to tell those in charge that they understand the risk and won't blame the government for "not protecting them" if something bad happens to them.