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Re: undefined

#41

Post by mcv »

lapcat wrote: post #18
lazyeye wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a mystery to me how those on the left get to spend so much time focusing on the threat of nazism whilst completely ignoring their own horrific history. I dont know how they get away with it.

How would I, as a native born US Midwesterner, view the USSR or the PRC as "my own history"? Not to mention that the USSR and PRC have both transitioned from economic socialism to capitalism while retaining political totalitarianism. So maybe the economic system and the political system are separate issues? There are plenty of countries in western/northern Europe that are more socialist, and indeed more democratic, t…

The real problem for the oppression and deaths is the totalitarianism, rather than whether it's coming from the left of right. Both left and right-wing dictatorship have the capacity and opportunity for incredible cruelty. Healthy human rights-respecting democracies do not, regardless of their economic policies. Although extreme poverty can also be deadly and could be considered a form of oppression. There are good reasons why workers in capitalist countries fought hard for workers' rights 100 years ago.

Re: undefined

#42

Post by 1337biz »

dakial1 wrote: post #2

Anyone here can explain why is Peter Thiel so dedicated to conservatism and the culture war? I don't get how bankrolling people who actively support policies that hurt minorities (like the LGBT community) can bring any upside to him. What is his endgame here?

For me his behaviour makes sense. I act in similar ways, as it shows that the person has higher moral standards than he can fulfil himself. He knows that his lifestyle is not according to his ideals, but to compensate this he funds initiatives that support those. Its basically carbon trading morality. And just because you can't live up to your own moral standards does not mean you see the point that these should be changed.

Re: undefined

#43

Post by sigmar »

Good on Ryan Grim for publishing this piece. It couldn't have been easy to accurately convey the content of this story with the gawker history in mind.

Re: undefined

#44

Post by firstlink »

xrd wrote: post #30
dakial1 wrote: post #2

Anyone here can explain why is Peter Thiel so dedicated to conservatism and the culture war? I don't get how bankrolling people who actively support policies that hurt minorities (like the LGBT community) can bring any upside to him. What is his endgame here?

My theory is this is a distraction tactic. These are real issues for real people, but Thiel feels that there are bigger issues that he can't make traction on with the Democratic party. So he funds outrageous candidates and they push culture war narratives and don't do anything other than rile up both bases. I am asserting that Trump was ineffective, his cabinet turnover was unprecedented, and maybe that's why Thiel l…

What most HN commenters won't believe is you've just described 80% of republican voters.

Re: undefined

#45

Post by defen »

Teever wrote: post #31
tdehnel wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to try and explain how I understand Peter Thiel's worldview here, which I've learned from listening to him talk and reading what he writes. You can downvote this all you want, but I believe it's an accurate interpretation. I'll try to keep my own opinions out of it. To understand Thiel's position, you have to broaden your idea of harm past immediate harm to a single group of people. While I'm sure Thiel has…

> Some of you reading this are going to huff and just disregard it, but for Thiel, preventing potential massive tragedy in the future is likely worth a tradeoff of some people being "harmed" now. Let's say I agree with Thiel on this matter. We agree so much that I intend to drone strike Thiel. Is this position good or bad? How does it differ from that of Thiel?

If your argument is that directly murdering someone is equivalent to supporting politicians who support policies which you don't like, you've already lost. Why not just murder the people who voted for the politicians that Thiel supported while you're at it?

Re: undefined

#46

Post by 1337biz »

mcv wrote: post #23
boeingUH60 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thiel is a multi-billionaire, so the same rules don't apply to him as the masses. Even the most anti-LGBT politicians will fawn over you if you have such money and power despite being what they supposedly detest.

The article even quotes on of Thiel's bought politicians who came to his wedding despite opposing gay marriage. The whole thing seems utterly contradictory to me, but clearly principles are flexible when money and power are concerned.

You have to take another moral compass that reflects the personal reality. For example someone can be super supportive and volunteer to help immigrants. But on the other hand support hardcore anti-immigrant regulation.

Why? Because he realises that people are selfish and he would act in the immigrants situation the same opportunistic way thus feels sympathy. But at the same way sees opportunistic immigration is a mayor problem for society thus supports hard regulation.

That way leads to situations where you are personal friends with people that you on a systemic level attack, without having a true moral conflict.

Re: undefined

#47

Post by theGnuMe »

xrd wrote: post #30
dakial1 wrote: post #2

Anyone here can explain why is Peter Thiel so dedicated to conservatism and the culture war? I don't get how bankrolling people who actively support policies that hurt minorities (like the LGBT community) can bring any upside to him. What is his endgame here?

My theory is this is a distraction tactic. These are real issues for real people, but Thiel feels that there are bigger issues that he can't make traction on with the Democratic party. So he funds outrageous candidates and they push culture war narratives and don't do anything other than rile up both bases. I am asserting that Trump was ineffective, his cabinet turnover was unprecedented, and maybe that's why Thiel l…

I mean this is the standard Republican playbook. You missed tax cuts and well cronyism. However, Thiel needs defense contracts and wants to be a power broker of political power. For that he needs to get congressional reps and senators.

Trump and the tea party MAGAs are a way to get that influence since it is a "new world order" and displaces Koch and Murdoch as the principal power brokers. The reason Tucker is so pro-Trump is because Murdoch wants to keep his power.

The pro-Putin stance is also a direct play to the MAGAs which is an evolution of the get the US out of Nato crap.

Re: undefined

#48

Post by red-iron-pine »

cinntaile wrote: post #21
michael1999 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The man believes what he believes, and has sex the way he has sex. Lots of fascists are gay. It’s a whole trope.

A lot of people seem convinced he's a fascist but where is the actual evidence?

Search for "dark enlightenment" -- Pete has a lot of uncomfortable connections to reactionary theorists.

See also: Frederick The Great, who was power hungry, belligerent, effective, and gay as hell. That whole Prussian discipline thing? Oh yeah, basically ramped up to 11 with Fred. Aside from loving opera and fashion, he also was all about large men and large horses.

Re: undefined

#49

Post by ladyattis »

nradov wrote: post #20
ladyattis wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with Thiel's worldview is that it's not all that accurate. Yes, the Soviet Union was a horrible authoritarian state but the alternative to it isn't any better especially if you're not in the United States or of its preferred/default social classes. The damage done by the USSR and the Russian civil war pale in comparison to the yearly death toll of millions from medical deprivation and starvation even afte…

How many people die every year from medical deprivation? While that is a legitimate problem that we need to fix, I'm skeptical whether that could exceed the 100M who have been killed by Communism. https://victimsofcommunism.org/

Victims of Communism and the authors of the Black Book of Communism's own figures are debated by experts of the history of Russia and the USSR, especially during Stalin's reign. Many of the deaths that the Black Book of Communism sites were mostly due to the invasion by Nazi Germany (somewhere around 10 or 20 million iirc). The rest are also mostly not direct deaths by the Bolsheviks or the USSR state apparatus (this is including the famines). And the biggest problem with the book is that it often makes up the figures whole cloth.

This isn't saying the USSR or the Bolsheviks weren't horrible, but one must put their crimes against humanity in the proper context and not turn them into super inhuman villains as much as we did with the Nazis (they too were horrible, but sadly they were very much a product of the mainstream values of their time).

Plus, the claim that allowing for social democratic policies like UBI, IP law reform, and the like to come to fruition isn't going to create another Red Terror. If anything, it's the most conservative thing you can do (see German Empire and the institution of Social Insurance by Otto von Bismarck) since it retains capitalism but tames its worse aspects for a time. This is why I roll my eyes at folks like Thiel since they rarely have anything that would be a viable alternative than status quo and lying about how bad things are for many people today. And I say this as someone who's far left of many folks being a Mutualist and an anarchist.

Re: undefined

#50

Post by perfffay »

This sounds... SHADY no matter how you slice it.

According to the article he had been speaking to 'democrats and progressive activitists' about Thiel's hypocrisy. Considering how relentless Thiel was to Gawker... I can see how one can make the connection he could have been involved in the guy's death. This was NOT on my bingo card to say the least!!!

I am not a fan of his politics at all but his book was really good. However this development - the sudden death of his gorgeous kept lover - was unexpected.

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