Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Hello Dolly: Democratizing the magic of ChatGPT with open models

databricks.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 194 posts

Re: Hello Dolly: Democratizing the magic of ChatGPT with open models

#41

Post by xpe »

woeirua wrote: post #30
rashkov wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the high quality training data that OpenAI has encoded into ChatGPT? Do these other models come close to that?

Why couldn't you just use OpenAI's API to feed prompts and then take the outputs and use them to train your own model to exfiltrate the best features of GPT?

Give it a try if you feel like it is a good thing to do. I'm sure some nation states are doing it.

P.S. this comment does not reflect my personal values. But I would rather someone with values try it almost like a white hat pen test.

Re: Hello Dolly: Democratizing the magic of ChatGPT with open models

#42

Post by ImprobableTruth »

wsgeorge wrote: post #36
woeirua wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why couldn't you just use OpenAI's API to feed prompts and then take the outputs and use them to train your own model to exfiltrate the best features of GPT?

Because it would be against their TOS, and things could look ugly, legally.

Is this a bit? If it's illegal to train on copyrighted material, then OAI has broken the law ten times over by training GPT3. There's absolutely zero reason for them to sue, they'll just ban the responsible people.

Re: Hello Dolly: Democratizing the magic of ChatGPT with open models

#43

Post by typon »

rashkov wrote: post #16
woeirua wrote: post #15

This is the real risk to OpenAI's business model. If it turns out that you can get most of the same outcome with drastically smaller and cheaper models, then OpenAI is going to have a hell of a time keeping customers around as it will just be a race to the bottom on price and bigger, more expensive models will lose just from a hardware cost standpoint.

What about the high quality training data that OpenAI has encoded into ChatGPT? Do these other models come close to that?

That's how Alpaca is made

Re: Hello Dolly: Democratizing the magic of ChatGPT with open models

#44

Post by nickthegreek »

wsgeorge wrote: post #36
woeirua wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why couldn't you just use OpenAI's API to feed prompts and then take the outputs and use them to train your own model to exfiltrate the best features of GPT?

Because it would be against their TOS, and things could look ugly, legally.

I think their TOS forbids using the API for this. I don't think it covers the use of the web interface.

Re: Hello Dolly: Democratizing the magic of ChatGPT with open models

#45

Post by typon »

htrp wrote: post #37

TLDR: Download GPT-J-6B from Eleuther Download Alpaca Fine Tuning Code + Alpaca Examples Train for 6 hours or so. Get vaguely good RLHF model

Key point is vaguely good. Scale is still important and that manifests in the difference between gpt3.5 and gpt4 based chatgpts. It's qualitatively and quantitatively so much better in pretty much every benchmark. There is no way around the bitter lesson.

Re: Hello Dolly: Democratizing the magic of ChatGPT with open models

#46

Post by xpe »

smoldesu wrote: post #34
woeirua wrote: post #15

This is the real risk to OpenAI's business model. If it turns out that you can get most of the same outcome with drastically smaller and cheaper models, then OpenAI is going to have a hell of a time keeping customers around as it will just be a race to the bottom on price and bigger, more expensive models will lose just from a hardware cost standpoint.

On the flip-side, OpenAI is primed to destroy their competitors. Partnership with Microsoft means they can buy Azure compute at-cost if need be. Their current portfolio of models is diverse on the expensive and cheap ends of the spectrum, with thousands of people on Twitter and HN still giving them lip-service. With dozens of clones hitting the market, OpenAI is the only one staying consistently relevant. The widespr…

> The widespread adoption of local AI won't obsolete a well-priced AI API. I feel like we learned that lesson pretty thoroughly in the SaaS era.

Unless I am misunderstanding (?), this seems like an overgeneralized lesson. There are many key differences between these situations that make such a connection unlikely. Could you explain your reasoning?

Re: Hello Dolly: Democratizing the magic of ChatGPT with open models

#47

Post by feanaro »

typon wrote: post #45
htrp wrote: post #37

TLDR: Download GPT-J-6B from Eleuther Download Alpaca Fine Tuning Code + Alpaca Examples Train for 6 hours or so. Get vaguely good RLHF model

Key point is vaguely good. Scale is still important and that manifests in the difference between gpt3.5 and gpt4 based chatgpts. It's qualitatively and quantitatively so much better in pretty much every benchmark. There is no way around the bitter lesson.

Isn't it the case that we literally have no clue how GPT4 and GPT3.5 are different in terms of training, given OpenAI doesn't want to disclose anything at all?

Re: Hello Dolly: Democratizing the magic of ChatGPT with open models

#48

Post by ImHereToVote »

wsgeorge wrote: post #36
woeirua wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why couldn't you just use OpenAI's API to feed prompts and then take the outputs and use them to train your own model to exfiltrate the best features of GPT?

Because it would be against their TOS, and things could look ugly, legally.

Ironic

Re: Hello Dolly: Democratizing the magic of ChatGPT with open models

#49

Post by hutzlibu »

Mizza wrote: post #12
rnosov wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are instruction tuning it using the dataset released by stanford-alpaca team. The dataset itself is synthetic (created using GPT-3) and somewhat noisy and in my view can be easily recreated if OpenAI ever tries to go after it (which is very unlikely). Anyway, facebook has nothing to do with anything used by this project.

So, this is a "dirty" model, in that is was created by data which violated OpenAI ToS. Obviously, this kind of violation is basically fine if you're a massive corporation who the rules don't apply to, but it's a huge risk if you're a small fish.

"basically fine if you're a massive corporation who the rules don't apply to, but it's a huge risk if you're a small fish"

With these things, it is usually the other way around.

If you are a small fish, no one will care. But if you are big enough, that money could be extracted from you, then they will come. A big org just has better lawers and negotiating power, but they really cannot ignore the law. Especially not, if there is a competitor with money to sue.

So if you are small and want to become big, better be cautious on the legal ground you are walking.

Re: Hello Dolly: Democratizing the magic of ChatGPT with open models

#50

Post by circuit10 »

nickthegreek wrote: post #44
wsgeorge wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it would be against their TOS, and things could look ugly, legally.

I think their TOS forbids using the API for this. I don't think it covers the use of the web interface.

However:

"You may not [...] except as permitted through the API, use any automated or programmatic method to extract data or output from the Services, including scraping, web harvesting, or web data extraction;"

Post reply on HN