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Megaupload data could be deleted this week

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Re: Megaupload data could be deleted this week

#21

Post by maeon3 »

By doing all this raiding of ptp stuff, you actually harm everybody involved, RIAA doesn't make more money, the freedom index of america shifts down from the 20's to the 40's, net neutrality dies as everyone puts a "This website, button, service, etc is not available to you".

The internet is trying to be transmogrified into fox news, where you can "tune in" to any government authorized channels. If we don't kick and scream to stop this, we'll wake up and the internet will be "one-way", like TV was in the 1960's.

Re: Megaupload data could be deleted this week

#22

Post by hobin »

VonLipwig wrote: post #14
tomp wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, in context of the previous sentence: > But just as serious, prosecutors will lose valuable evidence with which to prosecute Megaupload’s owners. they just pointed out that both sides will lose evidence that might help their case.

Surely the prosecutors loose their case if the data goes. Doesn't the defense shift from 'we moderated content, majority was legal' to 'prove that we hosted illegal content'. With the data deleted isn't it like trying to commit someone of murder after the murder weapon mysteriously vanished?

Yeah, that's sort of what I thought. This "On the flip side, Kim Dotcom will lose the ability to use the data to defend himself after pleading not guilty to piracy," seems very strange to me. Obviously, if the data were to be deleted, it would be because the FBI stopped Megaupload from paying for those data-center services. Thus, we would get a situation where the feds are at least indirectly responsible for destroying evidence, and then argue "well, prove that the data which has just been conveniently destroyed wasn't pirated!" That makes no sense at all, only makes for a stronger defense, so I don't think that's what they're going to try (which is why they had better preserve the damn data).

Perhaps even more importantly, if this data gets destroyed and they can't find further evidence to use against the Megaupload bosses, this would mean a federal bureau effectively destroyed a company without having any evidence of them having committed a crime. That would be a very bad thing, and would set a very, very bad precedent.

Re: Megaupload data could be deleted this week

#23

Post by celticninja »

corin_ wrote: post #11

If Megaupload were to win the case, get their domain/money/etc. back, would they be able to seek compensation? I don't know if they have any chance of winning, but if they did I can't imagine their being able to rescue the company - even if they did, they surely wouldn't have a hard time showing how much damage the downtime did to them financially. What options would they have?

Proving the lost costs would be a case of saying we made $Z per day and were off line for Y days, Z*Y= lost revenue. Add to that compensation for lost data for end users plus an arbitrarily large figure for lost "goodwill" in the business and punitive damages. Lawyers are good at this sort of sum as they usually get to stick a few 0's on the end of the figure they come up with.

Re: Megaupload data could be deleted this week

#24

Post by celticninja »

av500 wrote: post #9
LoneWolf wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No you are not, I think the same. Now about letting the files be deleted, this is good and bad, legitimate users will lose their data (obviously bad, but not knowing the rules of the storage I'm not sure), evidence will be destroyed (good for pirates, bad for the prossecution, about the defense I'm not sure)

Only legitimate users who did not keep a local copy of their files will lose their data... Unfortunately Google cache has stopped serving the MU terms of service, but this link still has them: http://www.scribd.com/doc/78876728/Megaupload-Condiciones-de... and there it says: "No Warranty You expressly understand and agree that: (a) your use of the Service is at your sole risk. Megaupload Services are provided on an "…

Just becasue something is in the ToS does not make it enforceable or legal, this usually applies when the Terms are sufficiently unfair or too broad, I would not knwo the specifics here but the point remains that just because they details it in the ToS/Terms and Conditions does not make it binding. I am sure that someone who had a premium account (i.e. paid for a service) that lost significant data could pursue a legal claim with a suitably friendly legal team, i.e. happy to take a punt in return for a share fo significant damages.

Re: Megaupload data could be deleted this week

#26

Post by wmf »

sschueller wrote: post #3

Wow, if this is true you could call it a MegaFail by the US Justice Department. Am I the only one that finds the use of the word ‘Mega Conspiracy’ in the indictment utterly inappropriate and childish?

The "conspiracy" language may be related to the RICO charges; if the DOJ can't prove who did what they'll just try to charge everyone with everything under RICO.

Re: Megaupload data could be deleted this week

#27

Post by ttt_ »

VonLipwig wrote: post #20
michaelfeathers wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect a Judge could just order the data hosts to retain the data, or seize it as evidence through an order to transfer it.

I would guess that would depend where the hosting resides. If the host is non-US then it is out of the courts jurisdiction. You need to think about the cost to the hosting company. I assume they are holding a lot of data and a large number of servers are tied up doing nothing without payment. They have every right to clean the server and allocate it elsewhere. If anyone should be footing the bill it should be the pro…

That's the problem with the shoot-first-ask-later approach that they have pursued. I'm positive they did not think this through all possible ramifications and now they are left with a great big mess on their hands.

Re: Megaupload data could be deleted this week

#28

Post by joering2 »

ttt_ wrote: post #27
VonLipwig wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would guess that would depend where the hosting resides. If the host is non-US then it is out of the courts jurisdiction. You need to think about the cost to the hosting company. I assume they are holding a lot of data and a large number of servers are tied up doing nothing without payment. They have every right to clean the server and allocate it elsewhere. If anyone should be footing the bill it should be the pro…

That's the problem with the shoot-first-ask-later approach that they have pursued. I'm positive they did not think this through all possible ramifications and now they are left with a great big mess on their hands.

I, on the other hand believe that officials had to have IT specialists to tell them about the cost to keep the storage running.

Re: Megaupload data could be deleted this week

#29

Post by joshz »

It's a bit strange that they can do that. FBI didn't have a problem grabbing Core IP/Croydon equipment when they investigated the Paypal attacks couple years ago, but here, they somehow can't find some legal justification to force Cogent/Carpathia to keep the data. Isn't it evidence? It pretty much seems like DOJ or whoever wanted to destroy Megaupload and they will have achieved that regardless of how they pursue it. No data, no company, they're still in jail.
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