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Watch the Watchers: LAPD officer database

watchthewatchers.net

41–50 of 109 posts

Re: Watch the Watchers: LAPD officer database

#41

Unless there is an equivalent LAPD initiative that uploads the pictures of law-abiding citizens with names and other identifying info to the public web, there will be suspicions that this is an anti-police (rather than anti-police-surveillance-abuse) measure intended to intimidate and obstruct police work. Neither is it clear how representative the organizers are of those law-abiding citizens generally rather than a…

> Unless there is an equivalent LAPD initiative that uploads the pictures of law-abiding citizens with names and other identifying info to the public web

Isn't that what many mugshots are? It looks like LAPD at least doesn't dump them online like some places do, but even things like https://app5.lasd.org/iic/ or https://www.lapdonline.org/office-of-the-chief-of-police/pro... could be just as damaging unless records are pulled offline when people are later found to be totally innocent.

I notice that news organizations are perfectly happy to post names, photos, and other information about suspects, but much less likely to publish information about police officers. I can't help but wonder if something like this watch the watchers site would even be seen as necessary if any search engine could do the job just as well.

Re: Watch the Watchers: LAPD officer database

#42

Unless there is an equivalent LAPD initiative that uploads the pictures of law-abiding citizens with names and other identifying info to the public web, there will be suspicions that this is an anti-police (rather than anti-police-surveillance-abuse) measure intended to intimidate and obstruct police work. Neither is it clear how representative the organizers are of those law-abiding citizens generally rather than a…

Police forces in many other nations can more or less be trusted to provide somewhat accurate data. When they don't, it often becomes a scandal. In the US them not providing accurate data seems more or less the rule. I once wanted to compare the numbers of bullets fired during service between different nations. There are nations where every single bullet that has been fired during service is accounted for and categorized whether ot was shot at a person, a warning shot, a shot at an animal and then there are areas where you won't even get a total number.

If you are a law-abiding citizen that wants a good police force, accountability needs to happen. And it is totally appropriate for citizens to take this into their own hands if the police departments and the political powers can't manage to make it happen. If people see that the LAPD is caught lying about cases and numbers repeatedly without consequences, what other course of action is there?

If I were a LAPD official I would see this as a sign that the public doesn't trust my numbers and I would try my best to figure out a way to change this.

A police force is provided with great power. And with great power comes great responsibility. And that responsibility is not towards your colleagues who killed innocent people, but towards the public. If you are proven to be unable to act responsibly it is in order for the public to find measures to hold you responsible. This is — by nature — political, but I don't think it is divisive.

A responsible police force should be in the interest of every political orientation, unless we are talking about authotarian or fascist movements — and then you got an entirely different set of problems, because they don't believe in the rule of law to begin with.

Re: Watch the Watchers: LAPD officer database

#43
post #35

I’m not sure I understand the point of Copwatching and documenting police abuses. Everyone knows about police abuses—the police even document their own abuses themselves with bodycams. It doesn’t matter to them because there are never consequences. It’s pointless to do all this documenting without a way to turn it into accountability.

[flagged]

> intimidation tactic to scare police from doing their legitimate jobs.

Do you seriously believe honest and law-abiding policemen could be scared and intimidated by being recognizable by ccitizens? I highly doubt that. Transparency is good, speaking against it is a good indicator that you might have a hidden agenda here. IOW, I personally dont trust people that utter sentences like this to be actually real, or nice to talk to.

Re: Watch the Watchers: LAPD officer database

#44
post #30

are we watching those who watch the watchers.

Well, I just came in this thread to lurk, so I guess I'm watching those who are watching those who watch the watchers.

I'll just take a quick look at you, so we can be sure there's someone watching those who watch those who watch the watchers

Re: Watch the Watchers: LAPD officer database

#45

I’m not sure I understand the point of Copwatching and documenting police abuses. Everyone knows about police abuses—the police even document their own abuses themselves with bodycams. It doesn’t matter to them because there are never consequences. It’s pointless to do all this documenting without a way to turn it into accountability.

I think that even if we were in a position where we are being subjected to oppression and there will never be any chance for justice, documenting that oppression and the people who are complicit in it is still very important.

It would help us make it clear to each other what can be expected. Keeps us a bit more honest about who and what we are. It gives us a place to start from if that "no chance for justice" situation ever changes, and could maybe even help others who haven't gotten to the point we have to avoid our fate. Wouldn't you think that even if it never protects any one of us today, history and the rest of the world should know about what was being done to us?

As for a website like this, maybe police will push back against it, exposing their hypocrisy in the process. Or maybe it'll cause a few people to think about why surveillance is acceptable when it's being done to them, but not acceptable when it's police officers. Or maybe somebody learns about all the bad apples and seeing example after example eventually feels outraged enough to push a little harder for meaningful changes.

I don't see the harm in it anyway.

Re: Watch the Watchers: LAPD officer database

#46
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the very concept of the police is a form of political ideology.

what an insane take. police has existed in every form of society and it is necessary for a civilized society to function. its like being against roads, or hospitals, or public transportation. the dichotomy of LA crime being out of control and LA people being so anti-cop will never fail to amuse me.

LA isn’t “out of control” because of a lack of police, certainly. Do you think cops prevent crime?

Re: Watch the Watchers: LAPD officer database

#47
post #37
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Interesting that you consider the few avenues citizens have to hold police accountable as a path toward anarchy and “black thug culture”. I’m curious if you have the same energy for the reasons police are being watched in the first place.

Of course, I'm an anarcho capitalist. I think the power that police are given and use is both scary and not healthy for society. They will abuse it, and they will escalate violence. But I also understand that at this point in time, society and culture is getting out of control and violence seems to be the only answer. I have no problem with them needing to use violence against criminals that are bullies towards the innocent.

If we don't like it, we need to change the laws.

And no I didn't say it was a path to it, I said it's causing us to move towards anarchy. Let's face it, a lot of current American black culture is openly sexist and racist and down right not healthy for a functioning society. A lot of people would agree with me except they're scared of the outrage and backlash and just plain scared of the angry thug violence most "black cultured" people will escalate such comments to.

You just don't see that as much if at all from white people's culture.

Not a comfortable topic, flamey for sure, but I feel it's important to raise awareness to the topic.

Re: Watch the Watchers: LAPD officer database

#48
post #43
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> intimidation tactic to scare police from doing their legitimate jobs. Do you seriously believe honest and law-abiding policemen could be scared and intimidated by being recognizable by ccitizens? I highly doubt that. Transparency is good, speaking against it is a good indicator that you might have a hidden agenda here. IOW, I personally dont trust people that utter sentences like this to be actually real, or nice t…

I was more referring to the people recording police and the way they treat them while they're doing their job.

But this online database is just a lighter form of that. Accountability sure, all good, but this can quickly turn south and become a hit list for these individuals to be targeted in a multitude of ways. Let's be honest about that.

Re: Watch the Watchers: LAPD officer database

#49
post #48
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> intimidation tactic to scare police from doing their legitimate jobs. Do you seriously believe honest and law-abiding policemen could be scared and intimidated by being recognizable by ccitizens? I highly doubt that. Transparency is good, speaking against it is a good indicator that you might have a hidden agenda here. IOW, I personally dont trust people that utter sentences like this to be actually real, or nice t…

I was more referring to the people recording police and the way they treat them while they're doing their job. But this online database is just a lighter form of that. Accountability sure, all good, but this can quickly turn south and become a hit list for these individuals to be targeted in a multitude of ways. Let's be honest about that.

The problem here is that accountability is still a random accident. As long as policemen are typically not held accountable, citizens need to do tracking like this, and even more.

The day there is real accountability for every case, I am on your side again, granting policemen the privacy they deserve. But that is quite far off. And it is something police can control themselves.

Similar to how I see catholic priests and their tendency to fuck little children. The day the curch proovably demonstrates that they are hunting the bad apples for real, I will stop calling them all a bunch of rotten souls.

Just show you have your act together, and people will stop hating you, it is that simple. But whining about privacy while your gang is harassing citizens is just not on the menu.

Re: Watch the Watchers: LAPD officer database

#50
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what an insane take. police has existed in every form of society and it is necessary for a civilized society to function. its like being against roads, or hospitals, or public transportation. the dichotomy of LA crime being out of control and LA people being so anti-cop will never fail to amuse me.

LA isn’t “out of control” because of a lack of police, certainly. Do you think cops prevent crime?

Well... To a certain extent they do. You're not gonna rob a store if there's a cop standing outside
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