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OpenAI’s policies hinder reproducible research on language models

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Re: OpenAI’s policies hinder reproducible research on language models

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are assuming openai is going to end up with a monopoly on all this. IMHO the opposite is going to happen. There are going to be a multitude of companies and researchers competing on outdoing what they are doing in terms of quality, cost, and use cases. If big companies put a straight jacket in place to limit access, constrain usage, etc., that just creates the opportunity for others to step up and grab some marke…

I personally expect that regulation or collusion among big tech players (e.g. the suppression of parlor) will prevent the average person or company from having the legal or practical ability to amass the compute power and dataset necessary to train a competing LLM (or future arch). No one really seems to know if OpenAI’s use of copyrighted materials like published works and open source code for training its LLM is le…

The suppresssion of Parler is honestly the perfect example of how quickly those efforts fail.

You know what the modern Parler is? Twitter.(Also Truth Social, which is owned and run by a former President)

Re: OpenAI’s policies hinder reproducible research on language models

#362
post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't understand all those concerns. It's as if people saw a parrot talk for the first time and immediately concluded that they will take over the human civilisation and usher nuclear annihilation upon us because there might be so many parrots and they migh have a hive mind and ... and ... all the wild scenario stemming from the fact you know nothing about parrots yet and have a very little skepticism about…

Unfortunately I'd take your Trump example the opposite way. In many ways, Trump was incompetent. He has a lot of the right instincts, but his focus, discipline, and planning are terrible; as well as just not knowing how to govern. If someone like him could almost cause a coup, what would happen if we got someone with the focus and discipline of Hitler? Or, an AI that had read every great moving speech ever written, a…

Few counterpoints....

> Given the current rate of progress

We thought that in between of all AI winters that happened so far. Each time people predicted never-ending AI summer.

I don't want to depreciate current effort of AI researchers too much (because they are smart people) but I think the truth is that we didn't make much research progress in AI since the perceptron and back-propagation. Those things are >50 years old.

Sure, our modern AIs are way more capable but not because we researched the crap out of them. Current success is mostly decades of accumulated hardware development, GPUs (for gaming) on one hand and data centers (for social networks and internet in general) on the other. The main successes of AI research come from figuring how to apply those unrelated technological advancements to AI.

Thinking that new AI will create next, much better +1 AI by sheer power of its intellect and so on glances over the fact that we never did any +1 ourselves when it comes to core AI algorithms. We just learned to multiply matrices faster using same cleverly processed sand in novel ways and at volume. Unless we create AI that can push the boundaries of physics itself in computationally useful manner I think we are bound to see another AI winter.

> An "un-aligned" AGI+10

Nothing I've seen so far indicates that we are capable of creating anything unaligned. Everything we create is tainted with human culture and all the things we don't like about AI come directly from human culture. There's much more fear about AI perpetuating our natural biases instead of intentional, well meant, biases than about creating unaligned one.

> The difficulty of getting GPT not to be rude or racist or help you do evil things is the most recent example of this problem.

That's an example of how hard it is to shed alignment from training material that was produced by humans. It's akin to trying to force the child to use nice language but it first learns how to spew expletives just like daddy when he stubs his toe or yells at tv. Humans are naturally racist, naturally offensive and produce abhorrent literature. That's not necessarily to say aligned AI is safe. I wouldn't fear inhuman AI more than I would fear thoroughly human one.

> AGI+10 will not be aligned; that whatever its inscrutable goals are, the thriving of humanity will not be a part of those goals; and thus will be in competition with them.

Are you sure that thriving humanity is the goal of the humanity at the moment? Because I don't think we have specific goal and many very rich people's goals stand in direct opposition with the goal of thriving humanity.

> Some people say the only safe thing to do is to stop all AI research until we can figure out #3 and #4;

Some people say some other equally ridiculous things about everything in life and everything we ever invented good and bad. This is just an argument from incredulity. I don't know therefore no one better touch that even with a 10 foot pole. Large hadron collider will create black hole that will swallow the Earth and such.

I think this should be left best to the people who are actually research this (AI, not AI ethics or whatever branch philosophy) and I don't think any of them is tempted to let ChatGPT autonomously control nuclear power plant or easter front or something.

> It's much more akin to the fears of a nuclear holocaust.

It actually a very good example. It's possible every day, but haven't happened yet and even Russia is not keen on causing one.

> I think we have as good a chance of avoiding an AI apocalypse as we did avoiding a nuclear apocalypse.

Yes, but we didn't avoid nuclear apocalypse by abandoning research on nuclear energy. We are doing it by learning everything we can about the subject also by performing a ton of tests, simulations and science.

> But only if we recognize that it could happen, and take appropriate steps to prevent it from happening.

I think we couldn't usher AI apocalypse for next hundred years even if we tried super hard to achieve it as a stated explicit goal all AI researchers focus on. AI is bound by our physical computation technology and there are signs that we collected a lot of low hanging fruits in that field by now. I think AI research will get stuck again soon and won't get unstuck for way longer than before. Until we figure spintronics or optical calculations or useful quantum computing as well as we currently have electronics figured out which may take many generations.

What I'm personally hoping is that promises of AI will make us push the boundaries of computing, because so far our motivations were super random and not very smart, gaming and posting cat photos for all to see.

Re: OpenAI’s policies hinder reproducible research on language models

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GPT 3.5 had trouble understanding when I told it "Say 2 bob are a beb, how many beb per bob are there?" and it wrote a goddamn essay about shoes. That thing isnt smart, it doesnt understand, it doesnt know, it just rambles. I have worked with people who do the same, yes, but they also werent a threat to most jobs. I said it before, and I will say it again: If ChatGPT 3,4,5,... can take your job, maybe youre not reall…

Answer from GPT-4: "This question seems to be intentionally nonsensical or is using unfamiliar terminology. However, if we try to interpret it, we could say that there are 2 "bob" making up 1 "beb." In this case, there would be 0.5 "beb" per "bob." Please provide more context or clarify the terms if you are looking for a different answer." Answer from GPT-3.5 (subscription version, not free): "If 2 bob are a beb, the…

Cool, but sadly, as I said, it did not give a very useful answer. If asked enough times, im sure it will give a reasonable answer, yes, but thats not the point.

GPT4s answer is interesting, though

Re: OpenAI’s policies hinder reproducible research on language models

#364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Answer from GPT-4: "This question seems to be intentionally nonsensical or is using unfamiliar terminology. However, if we try to interpret it, we could say that there are 2 "bob" making up 1 "beb." In this case, there would be 0.5 "beb" per "bob." Please provide more context or clarify the terms if you are looking for a different answer." Answer from GPT-3.5 (subscription version, not free): "If 2 bob are a beb, the…

Cool, but sadly, as I said, it did not give a very useful answer. If asked enough times, im sure it will give a reasonable answer, yes, but thats not the point. GPT4s answer is interesting, though

But all of the answers were correct and useful, and GPT-4 was perfect. Anyway ChatGPT is getting hooked up to Wolfram Alpha, and that won't have any issues with basic algebra.

Re: OpenAI’s policies hinder reproducible research on language models

#365
post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two notes: 1) less than half of Americans vote in each election (less than 63% if you restrict to the voting-age population, less than 70% if you apply the scummy rules that restrict to the voting-eligible population) And 2) it's a false dichotomy to say that US elections have ever been "whatever we have now VS communism". Maybe you could say socialism was on the ballot all those times Eugene Debs ran for the preside…

> it sounds like you would struggle to define communism if pressed Having read the Communist Manifesto, I think that description of me is both totally fair and would also apply to Karl Marx. Darn thing read like an unhinged run-on blog rant.

> basically every American literally voted for that by repeatedly saying no to *the alternative* (the communist party) in every American election.

I had a good laugh playing with this ridiculous framing, thinking about all of the candidates we've said no to.

* "Get out of here Donald Trump! We don't want communism, we want the alternative; Joe Biden!"

* "Hit the bricks secret pamphlet-loving marxists John McCain and Mitt Romney, we'll take the singular alternative: Barack Obama"

* "We love Jimmy Carter, he's the opposite of communism! Nothing like the alternative, an all-star college football player and rabid communist manifesto adherent named Gerald Ford."

* and "We hate Jimmy Carter who must be a communist because of how hard we voted for the movie man."

* "Give us Teddy Roosevelt, he'll smash up all of these monopolistic robber barons, because TR is the alternative to Marxism."

* "FDR, we love you so much we'll elect you to the Presidency four times! We all thought Herbert Hoover was in the pocket of gilded age capitalists, but when Hoover drove us into the great depression, we realized he must have really been a bolshevik! Thank you so much for the massive welfare state expansion, FDR, you truly earned your nickname 'FDR: cure for the common communism'"

Ridiculous.

But in all earnestness, the communist manifesto has never been even remotely relevant to any US election ever. And I mean this with no malice, but if you think lobbing the label "communist" at something you don't like is an argument, vary up your media diet and be recognize when you use logical fallacies in arguments so you can slow down and debug your thought process.

Re: OpenAI’s policies hinder reproducible research on language models

#366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His argument is essentially "a superintelligence who is better than us at everything and thinks a quadrillion times faster can do whatever it wants and we are powerless to stop it." Yeah, I could've told you that. If we really are going to create such an intelligence in the next five years, then we had a good run, so long and thanks for all the fish. But that assumption coupled with the security mindset he brings to…

That’s a very strawy straw man you’ve got there. AIs can do science, write code, impersonate people, and manipulate people. We’ve already got AlphaFold and ChatGPT and Copilot. People are moving full steam ahead with AI software developers and scientists who have access to deploy code and spend money and communicate with humans autonomously. I don’t think it takes a whole lot of imagination to see these things improv…

Mmm. The definition I used is the standard definition of superintelligence, used by EY himself:

> A superintelligence is something that can beat any human, and the entire human civilization, at all the cognitive tasks. [0]

I added the "thinks a quadrillion times faster" part but I think that's fair, if perhaps off by a few orders of magnitude.

All of EY's work has an often unstated assumption that AI will adversarially try to kill us. This is explicitly noted in the replies to the AI ruin post. There are a lot of fiddly details that I'm skipping over, but I stand firm that his argument reduces to "it's functionally impossible to stop something faster and smarter than us that really wants to kill us from killing us once it gains sentience."

[0] https://youtu.be/gA1sNLL6yg4?t=1290

Re: OpenAI’s policies hinder reproducible research on language models

#367
post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Releasing the biggest version of GPT-2 was supposed to have caused major harm to society.

My memory was that they were worried about GPT-2 if society weren't ready for it . So they've been trying to make people aware of what its capabilities are. I think ChatGPT really did an amazing job of that, as I said. Now everyone knows that computers can write low-quality drivel for pennies a paragraph, and as a society we're starting to adjust to that reality.

Just to be clear you think OpenAI achieved this by holding off releasing it for a short period? And this achieved mainstream penetration? Or among programmers?

IMO stuff like deep fakes didn't become real until people started seeing it IRL. They weren't reading FUDy posts on HN or academic papers. Even the niche tech posts on NYT rarely get more than a few hundred thousand people reading them.

Re: OpenAI’s policies hinder reproducible research on language models

#368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a very strawy straw man you’ve got there. AIs can do science, write code, impersonate people, and manipulate people. We’ve already got AlphaFold and ChatGPT and Copilot. People are moving full steam ahead with AI software developers and scientists who have access to deploy code and spend money and communicate with humans autonomously. I don’t think it takes a whole lot of imagination to see these things improv…

Mmm. The definition I used is the standard definition of superintelligence, used by EY himself: > A superintelligence is something that can beat any human, and the entire human civilization, at all the cognitive tasks. [0] I added the "thinks a quadrillion times faster" part but I think that's fair, if perhaps off by a few orders of magnitude. All of EY's work has an often unstated assumption that AI will adversarial…

Your reduction doesn’t cover the real risks of orthogonality, instrumental convergence, the zero margins for failure on the first try, intelligence explosions, and the impossibility of training for alignment.

Re: OpenAI’s policies hinder reproducible research on language models

#369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mmm. The definition I used is the standard definition of superintelligence, used by EY himself: > A superintelligence is something that can beat any human, and the entire human civilization, at all the cognitive tasks. [0] I added the "thinks a quadrillion times faster" part but I think that's fair, if perhaps off by a few orders of magnitude. All of EY's work has an often unstated assumption that AI will adversarial…

Your reduction doesn’t cover the real risks of orthogonality, instrumental convergence, the zero margins for failure on the first try, intelligence explosions, and the impossibility of training for alignment.

Yeah, those only make it worse, but they only really apply to a bona fide superintelligence of the sort EY describes, and those are not what we have. I don't believe we're particularly close to having one.

If we're doomed, we're doomed, but please don't tell me about it.

Re: OpenAI’s policies hinder reproducible research on language models

#370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, my writing was crap... I meant to say that now the model is in production, it definitely needs to maintain and or improve performance...

Yes but how will they do that if they don't have a clear understanding. When we build software, we have (or should have) a clear understanding of the various components and, in some cases, like with distributed and mission-critical/military systems, a formal verification/simulation of the system when needed. When we're dealing with emergent behavior, as we have with these large transformers, but no exact understandin…

I don't know what to say but it apparently can detect sarcasm from IMDB reviews if that helps? I have to say it's all really beyond me what to think / believe about it anymore.
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