Stanford’s war against its own students • Hacker News Board

Re: Stanford’s war against its own students

#71

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 9:12 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #57

Psychlist wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the core bit you've missed is: Stanford explicitly selects for perfectionists by requiring extremely high standards of (most) students. Those students have spend several years working very hard to get in, aware that even the slightest mis-step can cost them everything they've worked for. But they're surrounded by people trying to help them get in. Then they get to Stanford and discover that the university adm…

But that's all of life, too, isn't it? If you host a party in real life that serves alcohol to minors and get caught, you'll face more annoying consequences than a 1 year party moratorium. And, as I said, I'm pretty sure that if you deliberately dump a cup of coffee onto a coworker, you'll be fired instantly.

[deleted]

Re: Stanford’s war against its own students

#72

Post by gnicholas » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 9:14 PM UTC

aidenn0 wrote: post #44

bennysonething wrote: post #16

"For the past several years, Stanford has required students to adhere to a Student Party Policy, which includes a highly detailed “Harm Reduction Plan” mandating multiple sober monitors and designated alcohol service areas, and prohibiting the serving of any hard liquor. Party hosts must also provide “EANABs,” or Equally Attractive Non-Alcoholic Beverages, to “contribute to an inclusive and inviting experience” for a…

This looks to apply to on-campus parties only? If so, it's more liberal, if also more complicated, than the university I went to where the policy for alcohol on-campus was "No." Granted you could find dozens of parties within a mile of campus there; I don't know the geography of Stanford.

The vast majority of undergrads live on campus. Off-campus housing is quite expensive (it's in Palo Alto), since you're competing with Googlers and the like for real estate.

Re: Stanford’s war against its own students

#73

Post by heffer » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 9:18 PM UTC

majormajor wrote: post #66

Psychlist wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the core bit you've missed is: Stanford explicitly selects for perfectionists by requiring extremely high standards of (most) students. Those students have spend several years working very hard to get in, aware that even the slightest mis-step can cost them everything they've worked for. But they're surrounded by people trying to help them get in. Then they get to Stanford and discover that the university adm…

> But they're surrounded by people trying to help them get in. Do you mean helicopter parents? Or referring to the administration?

I understood it as meaning a social and academic environment that is supporting them in getting into Stanford.

Re: Stanford’s war against its own students

#74

Post by ben_w » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 9:21 PM UTC

version_five wrote: post #54

ben_w wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The welcome event for freshers at Aberystwyth uni had the speaker (Chancellor? Don't remember) practically encouraging people to relax and drink as well as studying. One of my acquaintances at university did an exchange year with an American university, was forced to attend an alcoholism awareness group therapy program after being caught at a party with one beer, at which (I paraphrase but by his own description) alm…

Lol, from how I understand you post I feel like it could be a comedy skit about a Welsh guy going to the coastal US and acting normally, like telling drinking stories, while the sheltered people around him are horrified.

*Welsh student*

"Felly beth bynnag, ar ôl i ni i gyd orffen y pumed peint, David, chwedl llwyr ei fod, penderfynodd roi un o'r defaid yr oeddem wedi'i ddwyn i sedd gefn car y deon. Beth bynnag, arweiniodd un peth at un arall, a nawr ni chaniateir o fewn hanner milltir i'r Amwythig."

*American stares back in monolingual, desperately grasping with one hand for some holy water as they believe they have witnessed Speaking In Tongues*

Re: Stanford’s war against its own students

#75

Post by mwcremer » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 9:24 PM UTC

bennysonething wrote: post #16

"For the past several years, Stanford has required students to adhere to a Student Party Policy, which includes a highly detailed “Harm Reduction Plan” mandating multiple sober monitors and designated alcohol service areas, and prohibiting the serving of any hard liquor. Party hosts must also provide “EANABs,” or Equally Attractive Non-Alcoholic Beverages, to “contribute to an inclusive and inviting experience” for a…

Likely a result of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Turner

Re: Stanford’s war against its own students

#76

Post by qintl55 » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 9:24 PM UTC

I love the covid angle thrown in for dramatic effect-- "poor students wanted the parties to get over covid blues and look how the college is punishing them!! Evil College!" My immigrant 0.02$-- if you care about building a life, being a frat president or organizing parties are optional activities. But then again, I also don't get why college football coaches are paid more than CS professors...

Re: Stanford’s war against its own students

#77

Post by Psychlist » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 9:25 PM UTC

majormajor wrote: post #66

Psychlist wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the core bit you've missed is: Stanford explicitly selects for perfectionists by requiring extremely high standards of (most) students. Those students have spend several years working very hard to get in, aware that even the slightest mis-step can cost them everything they've worked for. But they're surrounded by people trying to help them get in. Then they get to Stanford and discover that the university adm…

> But they're surrounded by people trying to help them get in. Do you mean helicopter parents? Or referring to the administration?

I mean supportive parents, and very likely also a supportive school and supportive community. "led a youth group" on the application doesn't arise in isolation, any more than high grades in external exams come from homeschooling (they can in both cases, but you're in the 0.1% of the 1% who get into Stanford territory).

Re: Stanford’s war against its own students

#78

Post by woodruffw » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 9:26 PM UTC

gnicholas wrote: post #72

aidenn0 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This looks to apply to on-campus parties only? If so, it's more liberal, if also more complicated, than the university I went to where the policy for alcohol on-campus was "No." Granted you could find dozens of parties within a mile of campus there; I don't know the geography of Stanford.

The vast majority of undergrads live on campus. Off-campus housing is quite expensive (it's in Palo Alto), since you're competing with Googlers and the like for real estate.

This is not a problem or experience unique to Stanford: NYC has 600,000 university students living in it, and they manage to tear it up just fine without relying on the campus to host their parties.

Re: Stanford’s war against its own students

#79

Post by woodruffw » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 9:31 PM UTC

aidenn0 wrote: post #44

bennysonething wrote: post #16

"For the past several years, Stanford has required students to adhere to a Student Party Policy, which includes a highly detailed “Harm Reduction Plan” mandating multiple sober monitors and designated alcohol service areas, and prohibiting the serving of any hard liquor. Party hosts must also provide “EANABs,” or Equally Attractive Non-Alcoholic Beverages, to “contribute to an inclusive and inviting experience” for a…

This looks to apply to on-campus parties only? If so, it's more liberal, if also more complicated, than the university I went to where the policy for alcohol on-campus was "No." Granted you could find dozens of parties within a mile of campus there; I don't know the geography of Stanford.

Right. The article bends over backwards to make this sound like a repressive policy, but it's significantly more permissive than most campuses' alcohol rules.

My campus didn't allow alcohol at campus parties, full stop[1]. It was nominally allowed at individually approved events, of which I never observed any (besides perhaps a football game?).

[1]: https://health.umd.edu/wellness-advocacy-alcohol-and-other-d...

Re: Stanford’s war against its own students

#80

Post by mrkeen » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 9:32 PM UTC

Sounds completely orthogonal to higher education.

> “If I didn’t get into Stanford, I probably wasn’t going to go to college,” he told me.

> he returned for his junior year in the fall of 2021 hoping to salvage a sense of community and camaraderie

> host a party at his fraternity, Kappa Sigma, where he was now president

Is he a student, or is he LARPing some idealised college experience he saw in a movie?

> Party hosts must also provide “EANABs,” or Equally Attractive Non-Alcoholic Beverages, to “contribute to an inclusive and inviting experience” for all partygoers. Hosts are also required to take an online “Party Planning Course” before submitting their applications.

Lock it down harder. Do your parties off-campus.