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Stanford’s war against its own students

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Re: Stanford’s war against its own students

#61

Post by giraffe_lady »

lp0_on_fire wrote: post #60
giraffe_lady wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes actually.

Care to back that up with any facts or is it just because you disagree with her? From what I've read she's a pretty run-of-the-mill liberal who's had some disagreements with the current orthodoxy of the left. That doesn't make her a tiki-torch bearing radical.

Since leaving nyt and even shortly before she's been almost completely focused on the censorship-of-conservatives moral panic and the anti trans crusade. Moderate-right and far-right projects respectively. She uses her newsletter to publish and amplify voices of the right, and writes from their perspective about issues they care about.

Re: Stanford’s war against its own students

#62

Post by dang »

libraryatnight wrote: post #56

I can't take the use of "war" in this headline seriously at all. Why is everything framed so threateningly? Maybe this is a bad policy, but it seems to me they want to ensure on-campus, official student organization run, parties that serve alcohol do so responsibly and provide other drinks so people don't feel like they have to drink booze. Maybe they've gone too far in another direction, but seems something Standfor…

I don't like that either and if someone can suggest a better title (i.e. more accurate and neutral, preferably using representative language from the article itself), we'd be happy to change it.

Re: Stanford’s war against its own students

#64

Post by dang »

consumer451 wrote: post #19

Pure politics, nothing technology related.

HN is explicitly for more than technology related topics: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

The question of how that relates to politics is fraught, of course, but if you or anyone want to know how we approach that, there are past explanations here: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so....

Re: Stanford’s war against its own students

#65

Post by cpgxiii »

Many US colleges/universities maintain a particular kind of legal bubble, where the surrounding city/state law enforcement largely leaves college police/security to their own devices to create an environment in which students very rarely face actual legal consequences for their misdeeds. On the whole, this is generally a good thing, in that it mitigates the worst effects of a broken national drug and alcohol policy. Local law enforcement doesn't want to have to deal with the large number of student alcohol and drug-related offenses (and especially not their parents), schools want to avoid the bad publicity of their students ending up in jail, and students definitely don't want to end up in the court system either.

That is the trade you make as a student going to a prestigious private school - you won't end up in real court unless you do something incredibly egregious, but you will have to deal with the internal disciplinary process that could (but very rarely does) expel you. If you want to be a school-sanctioned student organization, living within the legal bubble, you get to play by the rules that sustain the bubble. If you don't, live off campus and take your chances with local police.

Re: Stanford’s war against its own students

#66

Post by majormajor »

Psychlist wrote: post #53
tptacek wrote: post #32

This is such a weird article that I feel like I must not understand it. From what I can tell: A fraternity hosted one or more parties where, by finding of fact and apparently the admission of the frat itself, they served alcohol to minors, contravening an obvious Stanford policy; as a result, they had to go through an annoying adjudication process and spend several months under the thread of a long-term suspension of…

I think the core bit you've missed is: Stanford explicitly selects for perfectionists by requiring extremely high standards of (most) students. Those students have spend several years working very hard to get in, aware that even the slightest mis-step can cost them everything they've worked for. But they're surrounded by people trying to help them get in. Then they get to Stanford and discover that the university adm…

> But they're surrounded by people trying to help them get in.

Do you mean helicopter parents? Or referring to the administration?

Re: Stanford’s war against its own students

#67

Post by ben_w »

yamtaddle wrote: post #55
ben_w wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was raised Catholic[0], so I could argue that wine is a Holy Spirit. [0] technically

The blood of Christ, surely. I'm sure you've just committed some named, historical heresy. There's one for everything, it seems.

The original cover of The Hobbit has runes running along the outside; the runes read "The Hobbit or There and Back Again, being the record of a journey by Bilbo Baggins of Hobbiton compiled from his memoirs by JRR Tolkein and published by G?rge Allen and Unwin Ltd"[0].

I can read that because of my mum's books on doing fortune telling with Viking rune stones, which she kept near her statue of a Hindu god and some magic crystals.

At this point, calling one of the sacraments by a silly name is the least of my problems if it turns out to all be real.

[0] https://todayinbritishhistory.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01...

Re: Stanford’s war against its own students

#68

Post by dang »

verall wrote: post #30
dang wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On HN, we go by article quality, not site quality: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so... There are quite a few sites whose content is mostly skewed but which occasionally publish good articles that, for whatever reason, wouldn't get published by less tendentious sites. Our approach is to downweight such sites but not to ban them, and to turn the penalty off when an article seems good for HN—…

Hi dang! I think this article is a tough case. This is an interesting and intellectually curious article, but it is not separable completely from the rest of the website - there is a large "EXTRA! Listen to 'The Witch Trials of J.K. Rowling'" which is ideological flamebait that would not be allowed on HN, along with most of the rest of the website. Has HN ever considered amending the "original source" policy to use t…

> This is an interesting and intellectually curious article, but it is not separable completely from the rest of the website

It sounds like we're agreeing. See what I wrote above about tradeoffs; I was editing and might have added it after you posted (sorry).

> there is a large "EXTRA! Listen to 'The Witch Trials of J.K. Rowling'" which is ideological flamebait that would not be allowed on HN, along with most of the rest of the website

Yes, that's one problem with tendentious sites: it's hard to evaluate an article independently of the provocations one encounters in situ. I think that's what we have to do, though. It's probably helpful to remember that this approach ends up irritating everyone in the long run—that is, whatever any reader's buttons are, something's going to occasionally appear on HN that pushes them—at least, if we're applying the policy correctly.

> use the internet archive rather than the original

I don't think that would help; it would just push the provocation to a different spot under the carpet. For example we'd get second-order flamewars about why site X was getting that treatment but not site Y. And I think it's pretty core to HN to have the (original) domain displayed beside a title.

Re: Stanford’s war against its own students

#69

Post by geodel »

bennysonething wrote: post #16

"For the past several years, Stanford has required students to adhere to a Student Party Policy, which includes a highly detailed “Harm Reduction Plan” mandating multiple sober monitors and designated alcohol service areas, and prohibiting the serving of any hard liquor. Party hosts must also provide “EANABs,” or Equally Attractive Non-Alcoholic Beverages, to “contribute to an inclusive and inviting experience” for a…

> Hosts are also required to take an online “Party Planning Course”

Well, the way they are going, it seems Stanford admins are required to take "Party Pooper Course"

Re: Stanford’s war against its own students

#70

Post by YeahNO »

yamtaddle wrote: post #55
ben_w wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was raised Catholic[0], so I could argue that wine is a Holy Spirit. [0] technically

The blood of Christ, surely. I'm sure you've just committed some named, historical heresy. There's one for everything, it seems.

Only when they have gathered for the ritual at the annointed hour, when the cleric speaks the incantation does the transubstantiation occur, that they may feast upon the flesh and blood of their god.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transubstantiation

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