Do Kwon arrested in Montenegro: Interior Minister • Hacker News Board

Re: Do Kwon arrested in Montenegro: Interior Minister

#161

Post by notch898a » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 6:57 PM UTC

Analemma_ wrote: post #144

zoklet-enjoyer wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that actually happened, why didn't they prosecute him for it?

I think the people constantly repeating this line don't understand how prosecutions actually work. Since all crimes have to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt to get a conviction, and some take more work/paper trail to do this than others, if someone is up on a bunch of charges, prosecutors will order them by easiest-to-hardest to prove, and then if the easiest ones are sufficient to put the person away for life, th…

Ross was convicted on the generic conspiracy (which does not depend on violent acts) and then sentenced on preponderance of the evidence of the individual possible overt act that one of the conspiracy acts was murder for hire. Not sentenced based on beyond reasonable doubt he did the murder for hire.

The fact is the way "prosecution actually works" is you accuse someone of a generic conspiracy, show some element of the conspiracy was beyond a reasonable doubt true (like drug distribution), and then go to sentencing considering any element by preponderance of the evidence. It's a chilling short-circuiting of justice. Ross wasn't convicted of violent acts beyond a reasonable doubt, he was convicted of a continuing criminal enterprise where a judge thought it was more likely than not involved murder-for-hire.

Re: Do Kwon arrested in Montenegro: Interior Minister

#162

Post by reducesuffering » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 6:58 PM UTC

throwaway290 wrote: post #93

ramesh31 wrote: post #56

It's always greed and hubris that does these people in. Who in their right mind would get on an international flight with an Interpol arrest warrant? He could have disappeared off to the countryside and lived in obscurity, but no. He went to Montenegro .

If you had been to Montenegro, countryside and obscurity is not that far from truth...

GP must be confused with Monaco or Montevideo

Re: Do Kwon arrested in Montenegro: Interior Minister

#163

Post by bandrami » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 6:59 PM UTC

janmo wrote: post #9

latchkey wrote: post #7

Amazing that it took this long to find and arrest him.

Ruja Ignatova is also suspected of hiding in Montenegro, she is behind the OneCoin ponzi scheme and has successfully been on the run for 5 years now. It appears that Do Kwon did a very rookie mistake by believing he could take a plane at the airport like every one else.

I thought she fell out a window?

Re: Do Kwon arrested in Montenegro: Interior Minister

#164

Post by selimthegrim » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 6:59 PM UTC

CoBE10 wrote: post #139

Do those people think that Montenegro won't give them to US? I've seen a few mentions of Montenegro in some American TV shows and they always say "The X has escaped to Montenegro...", "Montenegro doesn't have extradition treaty with US...". That's not true, and it was never true. Montenegro just can't sue them in Montenegrin court, because of the treaty that Montenegro can sue American citizens in American courts.

Even when they were joint state with Serbia they would have been covered by 1899 extradition treaty with US (see Artukovic case which was applied retroactively for crimes on territory not under Serbian jurisdiction in 1899, even if you reject that it would be 1918-2006)

Re: Do Kwon arrested in Montenegro: Interior Minister

#165

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 7:07 PM UTC

notch898a wrote: post #53

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The general rule of thumb, is that, if it's nonviolent, and less than ten years, it's Camp Cupcake (minimum security -no walls). If it's over a decade, or violent/escape risk, then it's Leavenworth. I've known folks that have done both.

The lesson learned from Ross Ulbricht is that there's a good chance it's Leavenworth for non-violent internet crime. Edit: per usual folks come out of the woodwork to accuse Ross of murder-for-hire despite the fact he was not convicted of any murder related charge, only generic conspiracies for which the overt act could have been a number of options (such as drug distribution). The jury never specifically said the ov…

[deleted]

Re: Do Kwon arrested in Montenegro: Interior Minister

#166

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 7:07 PM UTC

kube-system wrote: post #104

duxup wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think that search result would support your statement.

Shootings in my local news basically fall into two categories, drug related disputes on the bad side of town, or people shooting at police when they show up. This returns a decent number of relevant and recent results: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=+shot+serving+warrant&iar=news&ia=...

[deleted]

Re: Do Kwon arrested in Montenegro: Interior Minister

#167

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 7:08 PM UTC

throwaway290 wrote: post #93

ramesh31 wrote: post #56

It's always greed and hubris that does these people in. Who in their right mind would get on an international flight with an Interpol arrest warrant? He could have disappeared off to the countryside and lived in obscurity, but no. He went to Montenegro .

If you had been to Montenegro, countryside and obscurity is not that far from truth...

[deleted]

Re: Do Kwon arrested in Montenegro: Interior Minister

#168

Post by JumpCrisscross » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 7:10 PM UTC

notch898a wrote: post #155

AbrahamParangi wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was indicted in federal court for it but his indictment was dropped after he was sentenced to life imprisonment without the possibility of parole. There does seem to be very little point in winning a conviction on that front.

But yet not evidence he was convicted of anything but non-violent internet crime.

> not evidence he was convicted of anything but non-violent internet crime

I'm not sure where one is supposed to find sympathy for someone convicted of a crime, and looking likely to have attempted violent crimes, having their sentence strengthened on the latter's basis (within the confines of the primary sentence's guidelines).

Should Al Capone have been treated like a usual tax dodger? Of course not. He's a high risk to others in his prison as well as to society. We don't require beyond reasonable doubt for sentencing because it doesn't make sense.

Re: Do Kwon arrested in Montenegro: Interior Minister

#169

Post by skc » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 7:11 PM UTC

kijin wrote: post #80

phphphphp wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He’ll be watching his back in prison, he’s got access to billions of dollars — or, at least, is perceived to. He has wronged a lot of people, too. Also, prison is a one way street: if he stays on the run, and some day things do get to the point where he would feel safer in prison, he could hand himself in. Once he’s in prison, he has no choice left.

The South Korean justice system is notoriously lenient on white-collar crime, and it's exceedingly rare even for violent criminals to be murdered in a Korean prison. The popular perception is that you can spend a couple of years in prison and enjoy your ill-gotten gains for the rest of your life with no further repercussions, provided you've hidden your money well enough. Guess what, the whole point of crypto is that…

>>The South Korean justice system is notoriously lenient on white-collar crime

Then I wonder why he didn't just turn himself in, do the time and come out after a couple years and enjoy his spoils.

I'd imagine prison in SK is bearable enough.

Re: Do Kwon arrested in Montenegro: Interior Minister

#170

Post by zucked » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 7:11 PM UTC

ardit33 wrote: post #89

Wrong country to hide. Montenegro is a Nato member, and a US ally, and will do whatever the US say. Dritan Abazovic (the prime minister) is himself half Albanian, half Montenegrin, and he is very pro western. You can't hide in pro US countries. He should have maybe taken a train to Serbia (not a US ally), then a plane to Russia and hide there. Ps. For some reason criminals think small countries are safe, but capturin…

It's interesting to me that this is the current lay of the land. I've been to MNE many, many times and in my day it was a common belief that it was a favorite haunt for wealthy individuals who weren't able to get into the EU proper (and places like Monaco, Cannes, etc.)