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Block: Inflated user metrics and “frictionless” fraud facilitation

hindenburgresearch.com

261–270 of 324 posts

Re: Block: Inflated user metrics and “frictionless” fraud facilitation

#261
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is entirely on you if you give away your phone to those kids. I would think they would just run away with it

Ah, yes, it’s the people who got scammed who are at fault. Everyone should always be ultra suspicious of everyone around them, no happiness or fun allowed. \s I want to live in a world where I can trust a random stranger, not suspect them of robbing me. Justifying some extra protections like a pin or a fingerprint check to finalize a transactions should not be this big of a deal.

> I want to live in a world where I can trust a random stranger

This is and always has been utterly delusional.

Re: Block: Inflated user metrics and “frictionless” fraud facilitation

#262
post #77
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Silicon Valley creates companies with unsustainable business models that have to rely on tax/labor/regulatory loopholes. They pretend that profitability is due to actual technological innovation while negatively affecting actually functioning companies who don't have the same access to capital (bcs real companies can't pretend like they're capable of infinite growth). What most Silicon Valley companies wind up being…

I always think about uber. The moment that they have to start treating drivers like employee's they can't make money because self driving cars are still a dream and the taxi business is cut throat and always has been.

> the taxi business is cut throat and always has been

For drivers, yes. But in many cities the taxi system was engineered so that the owners of "positions" got lavish profit.

Re: Block: Inflated user metrics and “frictionless” fraud facilitation

#263

While this doesn't look great, it doesn't really seem up to the standards of past Hindenburg reports. Block's main product is credit card processing and point-of-sales, for retailers, and they have a reputation for being the easiest to use and deal with. I could easily believe that they are not doing their KYC work and that the feds will soon make them do so, but it doesn't really seem to add up to the company being…

Cash app now makes up the majority of Block's revenue. https://s29.q4cdn.com/628966176/files/doc_financials/2022/q4... page 74 of their 2022 Q4 10-K shows a per segment (between Square and Cash App) breakdown of revenue

Revenue yes, profit no (though profitability is very close to evenly split).

Re: Block: Inflated user metrics and “frictionless” fraud facilitation

#264

While this doesn't look great, it doesn't really seem up to the standards of past Hindenburg reports. Block's main product is credit card processing and point-of-sales, for retailers, and they have a reputation for being the easiest to use and deal with. I could easily believe that they are not doing their KYC work and that the feds will soon make them do so, but it doesn't really seem to add up to the company being…

Cash app now makes up the majority of Block's revenue. https://s29.q4cdn.com/628966176/files/doc_financials/2022/q4... page 74 of their 2022 Q4 10-K shows a per segment (between Square and Cash App) breakdown of revenue

For revenues, Square is $7B vs Cash App is $10B. However, the gross profit is both Square and Cash App are $3B.

Re: Block: Inflated user metrics and “frictionless” fraud facilitation

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, if Uber was forced to use the government cab cartel, then it wouldn't be better than the taxis. The entire point is they made taxis that actually work by getting around the taxi cartel.

Outside the US, well, Uber is not directly emplying their drivers. If Uber had all drivers on their payroll, taxi cartel or not, Ubers story, and financials, would look a lot different, wouldn't they?

People still choose to be Uber drivers, despite jobs that pay minimum wage existing. So, I'd bet the story would be way more complicated than your picture.

The main thing they get from offshoring the driving is scalable renting of capital. But well, I have no idea if one could not just rent it without the labor.

Re: Block: Inflated user metrics and “frictionless” fraud facilitation

#266

While this doesn't look great, it doesn't really seem up to the standards of past Hindenburg reports. Block's main product is credit card processing and point-of-sales, for retailers, and they have a reputation for being the easiest to use and deal with. I could easily believe that they are not doing their KYC work and that the feds will soon make them do so, but it doesn't really seem to add up to the company being…

> it doesn't really seem to add up to the company being a "fraud" The allegations in this report add up to wilfulness. That could result in the company’s money transmission licenses being revoked.

That's a stretch. They'll be able to remedy. Maybe they'll get fined. I'm sure they're a lot more steps in between before getting shut down.

Re: Block: Inflated user metrics and “frictionless” fraud facilitation

#267

"CEO Jack Dorsey has publicly touted how Cash App is mentioned in hundreds of hip hop songs as evidence of its mainstream appeal. A review of those songs show that the artists are not generally rapping about Cash App’s smooth user interface—many describe using it to scam, traffic drugs or even pay for murder." Hindenburg made a music video compiling the references that is...uh...worth watching: https://www.youtube.co…

I found this to be one of the weaker points in the research, as far as making a short case goes. If anything, the fact that it's so popular in hip hop would expose it to a much larger legitimate audience. Regardless, it's also just somewhat non-unique, Zelle is also name dropped in 22gz's Suburban, and a few Von and Durk songs, limiting ourselves only to drill rappers. Probably Venmo as well though I can't say I've h…

These report put together all possible allegations and the kitchen sink. It was same for Adani reports. Hindenburg isn't a legal authority which is seeking to prosecute companies. They are activist investors. So for them it make sense to add emotional arguments, aggregate already public information and present all data/scenarios that will cause the stock to fall.

Re: Block: Inflated user metrics and “frictionless” fraud facilitation

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What role would the SEC have? First amendment demands the freedom to publish whatever truthful information you want and there’s no restriction on profiting from “outside” information. If allegations in the report are false, the traders face legal liability. If they’re true but the market disagrees with the impact, they’ll lose money on the trades. What specific thing should the SEC be policing here?

Don't see any specific allegations, just a lot of rap song quotations and random opinions, all emotionally charged. That smells bad, just as that decade long Tether FUD that went nowhere. Anyway, just gonna buy the stock for a quick buck)

I agree that the report is low quality, but if Block has issue with the truthfulness they can sue the short seller.

Re: Block: Inflated user metrics and “frictionless” fraud facilitation

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Brazilianization" is a real phenomenon, isn't it? One wishes we weren't going that way in the West, but we are.

Maybe it is a bit too much, but in general, Western societies should work on educating people to greatly reduce their amount of trust in other people. Current Western trust levels are simply not reflective of reality: they were meant for a white society with a single, enforced religion, where everyone was shaking in fear of divine punishment. We live in a global world now and vast majority of it never had or expected…

Reducing trust is better in some respects, but deeply harmful in others. What would be great instead is to increase accountability so that it's safer to trust. In the case of scam money transfers, a path to reversal would be a start.

Re: Block: Inflated user metrics and “frictionless” fraud facilitation

#270

While this doesn't look great, it doesn't really seem up to the standards of past Hindenburg reports. Block's main product is credit card processing and point-of-sales, for retailers, and they have a reputation for being the easiest to use and deal with. I could easily believe that they are not doing their KYC work and that the feds will soon make them do so, but it doesn't really seem to add up to the company being…

Cash app now makes up the majority of Block's revenue. https://s29.q4cdn.com/628966176/files/doc_financials/2022/q4... page 74 of their 2022 Q4 10-K shows a per segment (between Square and Cash App) breakdown of revenue

Very interesting, thanks for pointing me to that document. It does show Square with +29% growth in net revenue (+30% profit growth), whereas Cash App shows 14$ decline in revenue. They managed to still get profit growth in Cash App by cutting cost of revenue even faster than their revenue dropped, but that does not seem to bode well for Cash App being able to sustain greater KYC due diligence, etc. I think they may have a better future in the Square-related business than in the Cash App part, especially if fed pressure on them to do more KYC in Cash App grows (which I would guess it will).
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