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Block: Inflated user metrics and “frictionless” fraud facilitation

hindenburgresearch.com

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Re: Block: Inflated user metrics and “frictionless” fraud facilitation

#121

Post by finfrastrcuture »

hoofhearted wrote: post #50
numlocked wrote: post #23

"CEO Jack Dorsey has publicly touted how Cash App is mentioned in hundreds of hip hop songs as evidence of its mainstream appeal. A review of those songs show that the artists are not generally rapping about Cash App’s smooth user interface—many describe using it to scam, traffic drugs or even pay for murder." Hindenburg made a music video compiling the references that is...uh...worth watching: https://www.youtube.co…

Correct. A scam here in Baltimore that keeps occurring is that the squeege kids will run up on someone unsuspecting and start cleaning their windshield. They will pressure the driver for a tip, and the driver will say they don’t have cash of course. They will say that’s cool, you can send me a tip. They ask the driver for their phone so they can look up their cashapp for them, and bam the driver got scammed. What’s h…

This reminds me of Brazilian banks which have introduced "Street Mode" to secure your banking app while out of the home:

https://www.riotimesonline.com/brazil-news/brazil/nubank-wil...

Re: Block: Inflated user metrics and “frictionless” fraud facilitation

#122

Post by mst »

overthrow wrote: post #24

I didn't know Square had changed their name to Block. Looks like it happened in December 2021: https://investors.block.xyz/news/news-details/2021/Square-In... That said this really seems overblown. The report seems to mostly just talk about Cash App. Square Payments, Weebly and TIDAL are not even mentioned. Afterpay is mentioned but that was a 2022 acquisition so the problems likely predate Block's involvement. It fe…

The vast share price growth since the rebrand and Cash App launch seems like a legitimate target if the app is in fact bullshit.

They're not saying the company is worthless, they're saying it's overvalued currently because most of its current share price is a result specifically of Cash App.

Their proposed actual valuation is quite a long way from zero and entirely consistent with them thinking the other products are at least somewhat solid.

(the title on here could probably do with editing, but that's a separate matter)

Re: Block: Inflated user metrics and “frictionless” fraud facilitation

#123

Post by user3939382 »

theGnuMe wrote: post #114
user3939382 wrote: post #79

FYI if anyone is interested I can prove it -- Cash App is engaged in a massive stock trading fraud. I noticed one day that my books were off (down) by 1 penny. When I dug into it, I figured out that Cash App is providing their customers with conflicting reports for their stock sales. In the app, the sales report rounds pennies up, in the actual sale, whose records are only available through more complex data export p…

If you cash out of the app do you get the full balance or the app balance?

That's the problem, when you cash out, you don't get the net amount listed in the app. You get a penny or sometimes even more than 1 penny less. The amount you get corresponds with the real net amount number that they've applied different rules to which is only available in your account export, only available through their website.

Re: Block: Inflated user metrics and “frictionless” fraud facilitation

#125

Post by reaperducer »

cccybernetic wrote: post #111
bfeynman wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is entirely on you if you give away your phone to those kids. I would think they would just run away with it

I was born outside the US and we had local gangsters that would walk up to you in the middle of the street and try to “sell” you a brick. Like a brick that you build a house or wall with. They would show it to you, and tell you that it was a great brick and that you should buy it. If you told them you didn’t want the brick, they would assure you that yes you most certainly do want the brick. You then bought the brick…

This happened to a friend of mine in Atlanta.

Someone tried to sell her a rock at a traffic light. When she wouldn't buy it, they used it to smash her rear driver's side window and grab whatever they could from inside the car.

Re: Block: Inflated user metrics and “frictionless” fraud facilitation

#126

Post by sidm83 »

hoofhearted wrote: post #50
numlocked wrote: post #23

"CEO Jack Dorsey has publicly touted how Cash App is mentioned in hundreds of hip hop songs as evidence of its mainstream appeal. A review of those songs show that the artists are not generally rapping about Cash App’s smooth user interface—many describe using it to scam, traffic drugs or even pay for murder." Hindenburg made a music video compiling the references that is...uh...worth watching: https://www.youtube.co…

Correct. A scam here in Baltimore that keeps occurring is that the squeege kids will run up on someone unsuspecting and start cleaning their windshield. They will pressure the driver for a tip, and the driver will say they don’t have cash of course. They will say that’s cool, you can send me a tip. They ask the driver for their phone so they can look up their cashapp for them, and bam the driver got scammed. What’s h…

In India, apps like Google Pay (which runs on UPI platform) require you to first unlock the app using your screen lock method and then also require entry of a pin to confirm any kind of money transfer.

Re: Block: Inflated user metrics and “frictionless” fraud facilitation

#127

Post by ctvo »

baryphonic wrote: post #75
ctvo wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The report is extremely long, but having gone through the bullet points, the case seems quite overstated. I've gone through it fully, not just the tl;dr. It's not overblown. They're not saying Block is doing anything illegal, only Block is valued much too highly. The bulk of it is Block skirting regulatory requirements to acquire more users easily, and those users doing illegal things with their Cash app accounts.…

> I've gone through it fully, not just the tl;dr. It's not overblown. They're not saying Block is doing anything illegal, only Block is valued much too highly. Hindenberg is accusing Block of committing fraud. That's an allegation of criminal activity. Block may be overvalued. I probably wouldn't buy it, and have my own beef with how Block operates.

> Hindenberg is accusing Block of committing fraud.

I don't think so unless I missed a big accusation?

They're accusing Block of enabling fraud, and when Block can no longer enable fraud -- say due to higher regulatory oversight -- it'll lose much of its appeal and customer base, which has already dropped significantly post pandemic.

Re: Block: Inflated user metrics and “frictionless” fraud facilitation

#128

Post by christopherwxyz »

numlocked wrote: post #23

"CEO Jack Dorsey has publicly touted how Cash App is mentioned in hundreds of hip hop songs as evidence of its mainstream appeal. A review of those songs show that the artists are not generally rapping about Cash App’s smooth user interface—many describe using it to scam, traffic drugs or even pay for murder." Hindenburg made a music video compiling the references that is...uh...worth watching: https://www.youtube.co…

That mix is fire.

Re: Block: Inflated user metrics and “frictionless” fraud facilitation

#129

Post by PragmaticPulp »

jstx1 wrote: post #65
hoofhearted wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. A scam here in Baltimore that keeps occurring is that the squeege kids will run up on someone unsuspecting and start cleaning their windshield. They will pressure the driver for a tip, and the driver will say they don’t have cash of course. They will say that’s cool, you can send me a tip. They ask the driver for their phone so they can look up their cashapp for them, and bam the driver got scammed. What’s h…

I don't think you have anyone to blame if you give your phone with a logged in money app to a stranger who is begging for money.

> I don't think you have anyone to blame

It’s a negligent move for sure, but a crime is still a crime.

Having someone steal your money without your consent is still theft and they are still the perpetrator of the crime.

The victim-blaming mentality on the internet is wild. Being negligent or naive doesn’t shift 100% of the blame to the victim when a crime occurs.

Re: Block: Inflated user metrics and “frictionless” fraud facilitation

#130

Post by JumpCrisscross »

baryphonic wrote: post #60
phphphphp wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If verifying people is hard and so a company chooses to take the easy route of not bothering and therefore attract lots of customers who do illegal things, surely in any world that's at the very least knowingly facilitating illegal conduct? There are a lot of platforms that do far more than Block to verify people -- Block absolutely could do the same if they wanted to. This is what Block do: https://www.youtube.com/w…

I don't think the allegation is that Block doesn't check, it's that the check is vulnerable to fraud. If Block rolled out a better verification system next week, based on off-the-shelf components, would they no longer be a fraud?

> based on off-the-shelf components, would they no longer be a fraud?

Yes. Also, they’d have to re-state their past user numbers and pay fines, both of which would reduce their valuation.

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