Earlier quoted context omitted.
No one discusses the elephant in the room: who elected these elites to decide what was and wasn't ethical and responsible? Nobody. So who ends up making the ethical decisions? A group of highly privileged SV types insulated from the very real problems, concerns, and perspectives of the ordinary person. This is just more of what humans have been doing over millennia: taking power then telling everyone else it was too…
I'm not sure this is entirely fair. Nobody elected the people who inspect nuclear powerplants either, but I still assume that they're doing a good job in protecting humanity. Even if they are possibly "highly priviledged".
OpenAI’s policies hinder reproducible research on language models
261–270 of 394 posts
Re: OpenAI’s policies hinder reproducible research on language models
#262If you came here after only reading the headline, you missed what the complaint is actually about: It's not that GPT-4 is closed source. It's that access to `codex` model was pulled with only three days notice, and the model itself was not open-sourced. Since apparently a large number of researchers were writing papers which used that particular model, that means all of those research papers are now non-reproducible.…
Surely the right way to do it, is to get your university to fund a creation of such a model first and then do research?
Seems like researchers didn't think this through.
Re: OpenAI’s policies hinder reproducible research on language models
#263Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I think what most of the people here are missing is how big, how paranoid, and how influential the "AI alignment" movement is. To you it looks like they're being overly careful and paranoid, perhaps as an excuse to set up a monopoly silo to extract money. But a lot of the people the OpenAI researchers work closely with -- people deep in the "AI alignment" community -- are telling them that they're being wantonly re…
From their technical report [1]: > 2.12 Acceleration > OpenAI has been concerned with how development and deployment of state-of-the-art systems like GPT-4 could affect the broader AI research and development ecosystem.23 One concern of particular importance to OpenAI is the risk of racing dynamics leading to a decline in safety standards, the diffusion of bad norms, and accelerated AI timelines, each of which height…
ChatGPT can't do anything until you elect it for president and even then ... you already had Trump. This should show you that damage potential of a single "intellect" in modern civilization is limited.
In few decade humanity will laugh at us same way we laugh at people who thought riding 60km/h in a rail cart will prevent people form breathing.
Re: OpenAI’s policies hinder reproducible research on language models
#264Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think what most of the people here are missing is how big, how paranoid, and how influential the "AI alignment" movement is. To you it looks like they're being overly careful and paranoid, perhaps as an excuse to set up a monopoly silo to extract money. But a lot of the people the OpenAI researchers work closely with -- people deep in the "AI alignment" community -- are telling them that they're being wantonly reck…
Until the alignment movement begins to take seriously the idea that we already have misaligned artificial general intelligences I think they are best viewed as a convenient foil Paperclip maximizers exist, they're made not only of code but of people
> Some epidemiologists are worrying that a new virus from Wuhan could become a wider catastrophe. Their message is infecting people around the world with fear and xenophobia, spreading faster than any plague. Perhaps they should consider that in some sense, they themselves are the global pandemic.
Like, yeah, people did consider that idea, and the "corporations are the real unaligned AI" idea, and the "capitalism is the real extinction risk" idea, and all the pseudo-clever variations of the concept.
The problem is that "understanding that capitalism has problems" isn't equivalent to "having an actionable plan to solve capitalism".
Re: OpenAI’s policies hinder reproducible research on language models
#265Earlier quoted context omitted.
No one discusses the elephant in the room: who elected these elites to decide what was and wasn't ethical and responsible? Nobody. So who ends up making the ethical decisions? A group of highly privileged SV types insulated from the very real problems, concerns, and perspectives of the ordinary person. This is just more of what humans have been doing over millennia: taking power then telling everyone else it was too…
I'm not sure this is entirely fair. Nobody elected the people who inspect nuclear powerplants either, but I still assume that they're doing a good job in protecting humanity. Even if they are possibly "highly priviledged".
Re: OpenAI’s policies hinder reproducible research on language models
#266Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There are always financial incentives. A useful question to ask yourself is, "How would I know if I were wrong? What kind of evidence would convince me that a decision was not driven primarily by financial incentives?" If your "model" is equally compatible with all possible observations -- if anything that happens actually confirms the model rather than disproving it -- then it's not actually that useful as a model…
You sound rational. Do you not agree with the possibility of AI doom soon?
I think:
1. That an AGI which was significantly more intelligent than humans could destroy us if it chose
2. That it's possible that such an AI could be created in the next decade or two, given the current trajectory.
And so, I think we definitely need to be careful, and make sure we don't blunder into the AI apocalypse.
However, there are several further assertions which are often made which are part of the "we're all doomed" scenario:
3. There would be no signs of "misalignment" in not-quite-as-capable AGIs.
4. Even if there were signs of misalignment, that at least some AI research groups would continue to press on and create a mis-aligned super-intelligence
5. Even if we learned how to align not-quite-as-capable AGIs, those techniques wouldn't transfer over to the super-intelligent AGIs.
It's possible all of those things are true, but a) 3 and 5 are not true of biological general intelligences b) give our experience with nuclear weapons, I think 4 is likely not to be true.
So re number 3: When you have severely "mis-aligned" people -- sociopathic humans who end up performing atrocities -- there are usually signs of this tendency during development. We have far more license to perform "what-if" testing on developmental AIs; I think it very likely that if AGI-1 or AGI-2, who are "only" as good at planning as a 7-year-old, have severe mis-alignment risks, that this would be detectable if we're looking for it: that if it's likely to destroy the world, and we try to give it opportunities to destroy the world in a simulation, that it will show its colors.
Re number 4: Many world leaders thought scientists were over-reacting about the risk of nuclear weapons, until they saw the effects themselves. Then everyone began to take the risk of nuclear war seriously. I think that if it's demonstrated that AGI-1 or AGI-2 would destroy the world if given a chance, then people will start to take the risk more seriously, and focus more effort on methods to "align" the existing AGI (and also further probe its alignment), rather than continuing to advance AGI capabilities until they are beyond our ability to control.
Re number 5: Children go through phases where their capabilities make sudden leaps. And yet, those leaps never seem to cause otherwise well-adjusted children to suddenly murder their parents. If we learn how to do "inner alignment" on AGI-2, I think there's every reason to think that this basic level of alignment will continue to be effective (at least at the "don't destroy the world level") for AGI-3; at which point, if we've been warned by AGI-2's initial mis-alignment, researchers in general will be motivated to continue to probe alignment and hone mis-alignment techniques before going on to AGI-4 and so on.
There's a lot of "if"s there, both on what humans do, and what the development of AGI looks like. We should be careful, but I think if we're careful, there's a good chance of avoiding catastrophe.
Re: OpenAI’s policies hinder reproducible research on language models
#267Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think what most of the people here are missing is how big, how paranoid, and how influential the "AI alignment" movement is. To you it looks like they're being overly careful and paranoid, perhaps as an excuse to set up a monopoly silo to extract money. But a lot of the people the OpenAI researchers work closely with -- people deep in the "AI alignment" community -- are telling them that they're being wantonly reck…
No one discusses the elephant in the room: who elected these elites to decide what was and wasn't ethical and responsible? Nobody. So who ends up making the ethical decisions? A group of highly privileged SV types insulated from the very real problems, concerns, and perspectives of the ordinary person. This is just more of what humans have been doing over millennia: taking power then telling everyone else it was too…
Either way I’d imagine they’re in their roles for the same reason.
Re: OpenAI’s policies hinder reproducible research on language models
#268Earlier quoted context omitted.
Until the alignment movement begins to take seriously the idea that we already have misaligned artificial general intelligences I think they are best viewed as a convenient foil Paperclip maximizers exist, they're made not only of code but of people
Reminds me of the parody in Scott Alexander's article "If the media reported on other things like it does EA" > Some epidemiologists are worrying that a new virus from Wuhan could become a wider catastrophe. Their message is infecting people around the world with fear and xenophobia, spreading faster than any plague. Perhaps they should consider that in some sense, they themselves are the global pandemic. Like, yeah,…
This is a caricature and the same thing could be said of AI x-risk. There are plenty of ideas on how to avoid unwanted effects of economic systems. I don't think it's at all clear that it's a single problem with a single solution. Getting ideas into practice tends to be the tougher challenge.
More broadly, the point is not to say "wow, alignment problems have existed for a long time already!" This is not profound or clever, it's obvious. But there's a big group of people considering a narrow definition of the problem, and playing what could be considered a useful social role.
Re: OpenAI’s policies hinder reproducible research on language models
#269Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure this is entirely fair. Nobody elected the people who inspect nuclear powerplants either, but I still assume that they're doing a good job in protecting humanity. Even if they are possibly "highly priviledged".
I assume nuclear powerplants are regulated by some entity.
Re: OpenAI’s policies hinder reproducible research on language models
#270Earlier quoted context omitted.
>> An obvious thing to do would be to either open-source older models (including the weights) when retiring them; or possibly transfer them to an institution who see their role specifically as serving as an archive Another obvious thing to do is do your research on non-commercial or open source things that can not be taken away from you. Sorry, I don't mean for the snark present in that statement. The frustration lie…
Exactly, expecting a company to maintain a project forever (or give it away) just because they were used in research projects is ludicrous. Maybe they did the research when “open” in their name meant something but it has been obvious for quite a while that ship has sailed.