Earlier quoted context omitted.
This part's not in the book: Gordon Peterson, the architect of ARCNet, was a major source for me. He talked to Bob back in the day. Gordon's still bitter about it, and will gladly tell you why Ethernet is inferior.
Ethernet is one of those case studies in "worse is better". I remember the old saying that "Ethernet doesn't work in theory, but it does in practice". Mostly referring to the CSMA/CD scheme used before switches took over. The competitive advantage of being built out of cheap commodity hardware and cabling is hard to overstate. Nobody likes dealing with vendors, their salespeople, and especially support contracts. Esp…
Bob Metcalfe wins Turing Award
211–220 of 238 posts
Re: Bob Metcalfe wins Turing Award
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
And yet it's trivially true. Value accrues with connectivity, which is number of the edges in a fully connected graph being n(n-1)/2, which as n grows larger approximates to n^2. I would be surprised he said he "made it up", other than as a joke about elementary computer science.
As n grows larger, the number of edges approximates n²/2. I may be pedantic but I feel that the difference between something and it's half is non-negligible.
Re: Bob Metcalfe wins Turing Award
#213Re: Bob Metcalfe wins Turing Award
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ethernet is one of those case studies in "worse is better". I remember the old saying that "Ethernet doesn't work in theory, but it does in practice". Mostly referring to the CSMA/CD scheme used before switches took over. The competitive advantage of being built out of cheap commodity hardware and cabling is hard to overstate. Nobody likes dealing with vendors, their salespeople, and especially support contracts. Esp…
Agreed. Can't overstate the cost effectiveness. In the late 80s or early 90s you could put hundreds of dumb terminals on one network with just hubs for signal integrity. Plenty of collisions but it all worked itself out somehow if the throughput was light, such as text applications, text email, and a small amount of printing or sharing. This meant every university could have some kind of network scheme, making it a u…
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She’d heard that the product Xerox was going to ship was aiming for 20 megabits.1 It was amazing. But, as people at Xerox explained, imagine an entire office full of knowledge workers with their own computers, sending documents and email to each other and to the printer. How much bandwidth would they need? A lot! Someone in Palo Alto had done a whiteboard exercise on the bandwidth required for teleportation, in other words, sending an entire human being through the wire. It wasn’t that they took the prospect of teleportation seriously, but still, it was fun, and she enjoyed being around people who had fun at work.
Ken scoffed and insisted that Ethernet would never work. This was a recurring argument with them that was starting to annoy her, although usually she’d just smile and change the subject. He kept hurling the word deterministic as if it were a magic talisman. On the Ethernet, you weren’t certain how long you’d have to wait to transmit your data. If the wire was busy when you wanted to talk, you had to wait.
If someone else tried to transmit exactly when you did, you both had to back off and try again. An engineer could give you the probabilities of various results, but no more. This was not real engineering, and Ken was offended by it. He was even offended by the word “ether” since any beginning physics student knows that ether was a bogus concept that was disproven ages ago.
The entire communications field that the two of them had studied at MIT was based on strict mathematical calculations and guarantees. For example, when you make a telephone connection, that circuit is yours until you’re done. No other calls interfere with yours. The telephone companies had spent decades perfecting this system, and they had a monopoly. How could any company, even one as big as Xerox, hope to change that?
She tried telling him that packet-switching was a real discipline, and the Defense Department itself was backing it. It was originally designed to survive a nuclear attack that destroyed some of the military’s communications lines. With packet switching, the message was broken up into pieces, or packets, and the packets might arrive on separate paths. Ken didn’t believe it would ever have commercial applications. People in aerospace had a low opinion of commercial stuff anyway. 1 The original speed goal for the Xerox Wire was 20 megabits/sec. The first controller, for the Dolphin, had independent send and receive buffers, but could only be made to fit on the board using 10-Mbps CRC chips from Fairchild. Furthermore, in the lab, Tony found that 20-Mbps signaling caused spurious collision detects on the cable due to transceiver tap reflections.
Re: Bob Metcalfe wins Turing Award
#215What's the killer feature that differentiates Ethernet from other phy protocols?
Re: Bob Metcalfe wins Turing Award
#216Earlier quoted context omitted.
>10GB data stream. SSDs have only recently gotten fast enough to just barely support reading or writing that fast. 10gbps (gigabits per second) is not 10GB/s (gigabytes per second). Specifically, 10gbps is approximately 1.25GB/s or 1250MB/s.
Consumer SSDs used to max out at about 550MB/s, some still do. You need a larger and more modern drive to do 1.25GB/s sustained write. Even then buffering can get you.
2.5 inch and M.2 SATA SSDs max out around 550MB/s due to the limits of SATA3 connections which cap out at 6gbps.
M.2 NVME SSDs meanwhile communicate over PCIE, generally using four lanes, and the latest PCIE5 SSDs can do around 15GB/s if I recall. PCIE4 drives can get up to around 7GB/s, and PCIE3 drives up to around 3GB/s.
Other potential bottlenecks can occur with the motherboard chipset, controller, and NAND flash, but details.
TL;DR: Any NVME SSD can saturate a 10gbps ethernet connection.
Re: Bob Metcalfe wins Turing Award
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's worth mentioning Moore's Law, which was actually a short term prediction, arguably turned into a business goal. The "law" states that the number of transistors in integrated circuits (like CPUs) will be doubled every two years (or 18 months by some variations). It wasn't entirely made up, as it was mostly based on advances in manufacturing technology, but it was a prediction made in 1965 that was supposed to hol…
Moore's law is still going , or so I thought. It's Dennard scaling that stopped around 2006. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/transistors-per-microproc...
Re: Bob Metcalfe wins Turing Award
#218Bob has been an active member of the Austin startup community for 10+ years and I've talked with him many times. As a EE, it was cool meeting him the first time and once I'd chatted with him a few times, I finally asked the question I'd been dying to ask: How'd you come up with "Metcalfe's Law"? Metcalfe's Law states the value of a network is proportional to the square of the number of devices of the system. When I f…
Re: Bob Metcalfe wins Turing Award
#219Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem with 2.5G is that it's not enough of an upgrade over 1G to warrant buying all new switches and NICs to get it. For that matter few home users push around enough data for 10G to be a big win. IMHO this is why Ethernet has stalled out at 1G. People still don't have large enough data needs to make it worthwhile. See also: the average storage capacity of new personal computers. It has been stuck around 1TB fo…
2.5gbps is literally 2.5x times the speed of gigabit ethernet, so that's going to be very noticable even for most home users if they do any amount of LAN file sharing. It's really just the cost that's the problem, because paying 4x to 5x or even 6x times the cost of gigabit hardware for a 2.5x times performance boost doesn't make a lot of sense. If 2.5gbps peripheral hardware costs would come down I will happily bet…
Re: Bob Metcalfe wins Turing Award
#220Earlier quoted context omitted.
A little confirmation bias on this one. In addition to the infamous internet will collapse prediction he was also pretty whole hog on the Segway scooter revolutionizing transit.
So let me enlighten you a bit: we did collapse the internet, and got a testy email from a bunch of backbone maintainers that they were going to block our live video streams (on port 2047) in four weeks time or so. Which resulted in us moving to the other side of the Atlantic to relieve the transatlantic cable. So even if it didn't make the news Metcalfe was 100% on the money on that particular prediction. The Segway…