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When did New York start building slowly?

constructionphysics.substack.com

21–30 of 248 posts

Re: When did New York start building slowly?

#21
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a simplistic take. European and East Asian democracies build infrastructure far faster and cheaper than the U.S. Often with even more stringent safety regulations and higher standards of quality. The question we are tasked with answering is: why?

corruption.

On which side? The faster side, I'm guessing?

Re: When did New York start building slowly?

#22
post #6

Speed is affected by process, and process evolves in reaction to abuse. In the beginning, it's quick to do everything, but as people take advantage - routing contracts to friends, taking safety shortcuts - rules get put into place and those rules affect the time to complete. For New York specifically there's another factor that it's strange the article omitted: Robert Moses. Prior to the mid-1960s, it was fairly simp…

This is a simplistic take. European and East Asian democracies build infrastructure far faster and cheaper than the U.S. Often with even more stringent safety regulations and higher standards of quality. The question we are tasked with answering is: why?

> European and East Asian

You just basically named two continents and said they build faster than the US and you're accusing someone else of simplistic takes?

Which European country builds infrastructure faster than the US?

Re: When did New York start building slowly?

#23
post #6

Speed is affected by process, and process evolves in reaction to abuse. In the beginning, it's quick to do everything, but as people take advantage - routing contracts to friends, taking safety shortcuts - rules get put into place and those rules affect the time to complete. For New York specifically there's another factor that it's strange the article omitted: Robert Moses. Prior to the mid-1960s, it was fairly simp…

Honestly this kind of reminds me how a large application grows. You get a polished application out and discover a bug, but you can't rewrite the whole app so you put a patch in. Then another bug is found, so another patch gets pushed out.

Over time legitimate bugs and requirements at the time fall by the wayside but the code remains. I don't know how we fix that problem when it comes to legal code though.

Re: When did New York start building slowly?

#24
post #13

Everyone who wants to find fault with modern constructions trots out the Second Avenue Subway as an example. This subway is an obvious route for convenience and as such was first proposed more than a hundred years ago. At that time analysis of the geology and hydrology along the route as well as the very large amount of infrastructure including other subways already in place resulted in the conclusion that a subway a…

It is worth noting that the second phase costs even more per mile to build, despite the fact that pretty much all the tunnels already exist from an earlier attempt, are structurally intact, and will be reused.

Re: When did New York start building slowly?

#25
post #5

Short version: "New York skyscrapers are built at around 50-70% the speed of Chicago skyscrapers. This seems partially due to New York constructing many more skinny skyscrapers with very small floor plates than Chicago does, which take proportionately longer to build." Ones like this:[1] [1] https://www.cnn.com/style/article/steinway-tower-intl-scli/i...

Why is NYC building skinnier skyscrapers? Is it air rights? Or is it easier to get approval to build such things on the few remaining smaller parcels and shorter buildings (which have to be knocked down first).

Consolidating lots is hard to do, because you have to be able to buy out other landowners, and they have to be willing to sell. Obtaining air rights is far easier. And the basic land plot unit in the New York grid is only 25 by 100 ft.

Re: When did New York start building slowly?

#27

I wonder how much of this is regulations and process related? It would be curious to see lines overlayed when new regulation was passed that might affect things. Not sure anyone would ever be able to prove causation, but it would definitely be interesting to look at. For all I know maybe it’s not a factor at all?

It’s pretty obvious from first principles that added cost to the builder necessitates higher housing costs to justify building something. Alternative is lower margins, but they aren’t that big in typical development projects anyway (in normal times)

I encourage everyone to go attempt to build a house for themselves. It takes away the armchair quarterbacking once you add up the Home Depot receipts.

Re: When did New York start building slowly?

#28
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

corruption.

On which side? The faster side, I'm guessing?

both. corruption favors the powerful. in established cities the powerful own land and don't want it changed, in new ones it's the developers and govt.

Re: When did New York start building slowly?

#29
post #10

I was surprised to see most construction sites only have one shift working. Sites work around 8->4, 5 days a week. Not sure if that is city regulation or union workforce.

Noise ordinances. Waiting on city inspectors. Working capital. Labor doesn’t care to work overnight and those that do get paid a lot more.

With interest rates low, easier to just hold construction note for another year.

Re: When did New York start building slowly?

#30
post #10

I was surprised to see most construction sites only have one shift working. Sites work around 8->4, 5 days a week. Not sure if that is city regulation or union workforce.

That’s when most people want to work. Do you want to work 4-midnight or midnight-8? Even if you do, many other people don’t want the noise of a working construction site at those hours.
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