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When did New York start building slowly?

constructionphysics.substack.com

11–20 of 248 posts

Re: When did New York start building slowly?

#11
post #5

Short version: "New York skyscrapers are built at around 50-70% the speed of Chicago skyscrapers. This seems partially due to New York constructing many more skinny skyscrapers with very small floor plates than Chicago does, which take proportionately longer to build." Ones like this:[1] [1] https://www.cnn.com/style/article/steinway-tower-intl-scli/i...

Why is NYC building skinnier skyscrapers? Is it air rights? Or is it easier to get approval to build such things on the few remaining smaller parcels and shorter buildings (which have to be knocked down first).

No the land is expensive

Re: When did New York start building slowly?

#12
post #6

Speed is affected by process, and process evolves in reaction to abuse. In the beginning, it's quick to do everything, but as people take advantage - routing contracts to friends, taking safety shortcuts - rules get put into place and those rules affect the time to complete. For New York specifically there's another factor that it's strange the article omitted: Robert Moses. Prior to the mid-1960s, it was fairly simp…

This is a simplistic take. European and East Asian democracies build infrastructure far faster and cheaper than the U.S. Often with even more stringent safety regulations and higher standards of quality. The question we are tasked with answering is: why?

Obviously (or I guess not so obvious since I am writing this) that is because of a different density of workers, architects, general contractors, engineers for vastly different biomes in the United States than in Europe. Europe has way more people (more than twice as dense) in a similar geographic area (far less diverse features) so the data and practices honed by one are more efficient and have greater economy of scale despite all of the red tape we share. Nothing really that interesting.

Or you can just go with the simple stupid answer of corruption as if Europe isn't its own cesspool.

Re: When did New York start building slowly?

#13
Everyone who wants to find fault with modern constructions trots out the Second Avenue Subway as an example. This subway is an obvious route for convenience and as such was first proposed more than a hundred years ago. At that time analysis of the geology and hydrology along the route as well as the very large amount of infrastructure including other subways already in place resulted in the conclusion that a subway along Second Avenue would be unreasonably expensive to construct. The idea kept being proposed every couple of decades or so and the conclusion was always the same: Far too much complication and expense to reasonably construct. Then in the 90s politicians decided that miraculous new tunnel boring technology would solve all problems and make a subway along Second Avenue easy and cheap to construct. This new technology turned out to have some complications and as a result all the nearly hundred years of cost estimates stating that a subway along Second Avenue would be unreasonably complicated and expensive to construct turned out to be true.

It is to the credit of our modernity that the project was completed at all. The real lesson here is not one of generalized slowing, but of a lack of rational analysis, particularly when a wealth of information is available.

Re: When did New York start building slowly?

#14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a simplistic take. European and East Asian democracies build infrastructure far faster and cheaper than the U.S. Often with even more stringent safety regulations and higher standards of quality. The question we are tasked with answering is: why?

Obviously (or I guess not so obvious since I am writing this) that is because of a different density of workers, architects, general contractors, engineers for vastly different biomes in the United States than in Europe. Europe has way more people (more than twice as dense) in a similar geographic area (far less diverse features) so the data and practices honed by one are more efficient and have greater economy of sc…

I don’t think this is obvious or even necessarily true. Europe has many things going against it as well, language barriers, split markets, generally being quite a bit poorer than the US. Moreover it doesn’t explain the performance of East Asian countries at all.

Re: When did New York start building slowly?

#15
post #5

Short version: "New York skyscrapers are built at around 50-70% the speed of Chicago skyscrapers. This seems partially due to New York constructing many more skinny skyscrapers with very small floor plates than Chicago does, which take proportionately longer to build." Ones like this:[1] [1] https://www.cnn.com/style/article/steinway-tower-intl-scli/i...

Why is NYC building skinnier skyscrapers? Is it air rights? Or is it easier to get approval to build such things on the few remaining smaller parcels and shorter buildings (which have to be knocked down first).

Both. In order to encourage existing building owners to keep their existing height, they were able to sell their air rights, which then made it possible to build tall skinny buildings.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/feb/05/super-tall-su...

Re: When did New York start building slowly?

#17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously (or I guess not so obvious since I am writing this) that is because of a different density of workers, architects, general contractors, engineers for vastly different biomes in the United States than in Europe. Europe has way more people (more than twice as dense) in a similar geographic area (far less diverse features) so the data and practices honed by one are more efficient and have greater economy of sc…

I don’t think this is obvious or even necessarily true. Europe has many things going against it as well, language barriers, split markets, generally being quite a bit poorer than the US. Moreover it doesn’t explain the performance of East Asian countries at all.

It would greatly explain the performance of East Asian countries. They share the same environmental challenges whereas in the US the challenges are vastly different depending on which coast you are near. Of course China had less red tape (no pun intended) in some regards for development than the other East Asian countries so it executes even faster than its peers. I think its more of a slam dunk than comparing Europe with the US in these terms, which is commensurate with their ability to churn out infrastructure.

Re: When did New York start building slowly?

#18
post #5

Short version: "New York skyscrapers are built at around 50-70% the speed of Chicago skyscrapers. This seems partially due to New York constructing many more skinny skyscrapers with very small floor plates than Chicago does, which take proportionately longer to build." Ones like this:[1] [1] https://www.cnn.com/style/article/steinway-tower-intl-scli/i...

Why is NYC building skinnier skyscrapers? Is it air rights? Or is it easier to get approval to build such things on the few remaining smaller parcels and shorter buildings (which have to be knocked down first).

There are many factors. Whole floor units are much more valuable than shared floor units, both for residential and commercial contexts. High floors are more valuable than lower floors. Taller buildings are more prized than other buildings.

Re: When did New York start building slowly?

#20
post #6

Speed is affected by process, and process evolves in reaction to abuse. In the beginning, it's quick to do everything, but as people take advantage - routing contracts to friends, taking safety shortcuts - rules get put into place and those rules affect the time to complete. For New York specifically there's another factor that it's strange the article omitted: Robert Moses. Prior to the mid-1960s, it was fairly simp…

Behind the bastards has an episode about Robert Moses.

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236...

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