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GitHub Copilot X – Sign up for technical preview

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Re: GitHub Copilot X – Sign up for technical preview

#181

Post by discreteevent »

programmarchy wrote: post #132
jghn wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Concern over this is the #1 reason I have not yet tried to use Copilot. For my hobby projects I don't care enough to pay for it. And if it's phoning home proprietary code, I can't allow that to happen.

It’s worth it even for hobby projects, imo. It reduces the time spent on mundane tasks and allows you to think at a higher level and just move faster. Maybe you achieve a level of zen from implementing utility level code, similar to how some people might still write assembly code, but otherwise it’s a valuable tool/skill to learn. Tangentially, I think there’s some fear associated with adopting AI tools, perhaps beca…

> my sense is that developers who don’t cultivate this new skill set will fall behind

That might be true but it's an easy skillset to pick up compared to programming. The bigger danger is that new developers will lean on AI so much that they do not pick up the fundamentals of programming in which case they will definitely be left behind.

Re: GitHub Copilot X – Sign up for technical preview

#182

Post by yanis_t »

drdrek wrote: post #167

I would love to hear from other people here but I tried it for a while and dropped my subscription. For short things it was nice, but the larger the suggestion the worst it got. I found myself constantly mentally debugging the output it suggested, I do not know if it was faster but I was mentally exhausted by it, unable to go for long periods of time. Dumb code completion is predictable, I know I'll need to press dow…

I mostly code in JS/TS and ruby, and find it pretty handy. Especially when I need to write some unit tests, I usually only write it("should work like this and like that"), and 90% of the time it generates a useful unit test[0].

Also, I find it very useful when I code in an unfamiliar environment, for example python. While usually I know what I want to do, I'm not exactly familiar with details of syntax's, or how a specific library api looks like. This is where it shines, in my experience. Huge time-saver.

[0] https://www.strictmode.io/articles/using-github-copilot-for-...

Re: GitHub Copilot X – Sign up for technical preview

#183

Post by hbn »

gonehome wrote: post #58
ren_engineer wrote: post #13

Microsoft really seems to have wrapped up the developer ecosystem with VS Code and the Github acquisition combined with OpenAI. They are going to have an absurd amount of data to optimize their models thanks to that, not sure how other AI focused companies can overcome that have to wonder at what point developers remember how anti-developer Microsoft used to be and potentially move away from their ecosystem. Credit t…

Microsoft is a so well positioned on this I think Silicon Valley has forgotten what it looks like when they don’t have a horrible CEO. When Microsoft executes well, they’re a scary force. They were exceptional under Gates and it looks like they are again. There’s a massive paradigm shift we’re just at the beginning of and Microsoft has been putting pieces in place for the last couple of years. Nadella has really turn…

I wouldn't go so far as to say they're exceptional. They're gaining good graces for developers by offering a bunch of free (for now) tools that people like. But most of their big breadwinner software is still abysmal to use.

I just tried cold starting Word and getting into a blank document on my i9 MacBook Pro and it took about 15 seconds. Windows is increasingly a dystopian user tracking and ad serving platform that happens to run the applications you need, and they still constantly break basic system functions. For a while I couldn't open jpegs in the built-in photo preview app. I gave Edge a shot for a good 6 months or so and eventually gave up because they kept breaking basic functionality that I never saw broken in Chrome (there was literally a month or two point in time where if you grabbed the scrollbar and dragged it, the bar would disappear, jutting the entire page sideways and breaking scrolling until you closed the tab and reopened it. This is on the default, built-in OS browser!) Also, my god, their SSO experience is so clunky and prone to breaking.

Re: GitHub Copilot X – Sign up for technical preview

#184

Post by endtime »

bredren wrote: post #129
gonehome wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft is a so well positioned on this I think Silicon Valley has forgotten what it looks like when they don’t have a horrible CEO. When Microsoft executes well, they’re a scary force. They were exceptional under Gates and it looks like they are again. There’s a massive paradigm shift we’re just at the beginning of and Microsoft has been putting pieces in place for the last couple of years. Nadella has really turn…

If it were not for the impending headset, Apple would look a wee bit caught out as well. I suspect once Apple turns toward gen ai, all of its other advantages (infra, hw, instal base, services, etc) will propel it to forefront.

I don't get the impression Apple ever caught up with Alexa or Google Assistant. That said, this is a bit different, since the AI tech is a bit more commoditized than with those voice assistants, and the product problem is the hard part. On the other hand, Apple has positioned themselves as extremely privacy-respecting - I wonder if that will affect their ability to use their users' data to train models.

It'll be interesting to see, anyway.

Re: GitHub Copilot X – Sign up for technical preview

#185

Post by w-m »

salt4034 wrote: post #143
w-m wrote: post #105

What I'd love to see in the future is a proper refactoring UX. This new chat interface is probably a good start, as it seems able to replace code blocks in your original source file. But most code changes in the real world require changes in multiple locations. And I don't usually have questions for the AI, I have small tasks for it to do. I hope we can get to a point where I can give quick commands to a Copilot-like…

I agree. Before finalizing the changes, the AI could show you the diff and ask "is this what you had in mind or would you like me to change anything else?"

Are diffs really the best we can do though? Can't we come up with a better model of interaction?

I find that looking at code and looking at diffs are different mental modes, for lack of a better word. For me, parsing diffs seems to engage a different part in the brain, and is much more exhausting than reading code.

In comparison, reading code while someone makes changes to it seems to stay in the same code-mode. And I don't want to switch back and forth from code-mode to diff-mode all the time.

How about after being prompted, Copilot acts like a remote user in my code base, with its own cursor, changing the code at the speed that ChatGPT currently writes out answers? Perhaps even commenting on what it does next to it. You could still have accept/modify/reject buttons at the code change locations, but they would change the new version, not a diff.

Getting this slightly wrong will of course make you curse the whole thing to hell and back.

Re: GitHub Copilot X – Sign up for technical preview

#186

Post by kmlx »

ren_engineer wrote: post #13

Microsoft really seems to have wrapped up the developer ecosystem with VS Code and the Github acquisition combined with OpenAI. They are going to have an absurd amount of data to optimize their models thanks to that, not sure how other AI focused companies can overcome that have to wonder at what point developers remember how anti-developer Microsoft used to be and potentially move away from their ecosystem. Credit t…

this just tells me it’s only a matter of time before they will be forced to split.

windows, office, xbox, devices, github, azure, zenimax, activision blizzard and so many others i’m forgetting.

Re: GitHub Copilot X – Sign up for technical preview

#187

Post by teaearlgraycold »

fn-mote wrote: post #171
hu3 wrote: post #130

Scary. For the first time in my life, I feel like my expertise is at risk of being rendered obsolete. Maybe not this year, but the writing is on the wall. Soon coding without an AI will feel as antiquated as delivering food by horse. And resistance is futile because markets will punish those who refuse. We'll probably need less and less developers as AI advance. Just like we need less manual labor in farms today. And…

> For the first time in my life, I feel like my expertise is at risk of being rendered obsolete. Maybe not this year, but the writing is on the wall. My expertise is in designing, understanding, and debugging complex systems. I will just apply my expertise to the AI. Another angle: just think of how many mom and pop shops are still contracting out to get web sites, and not getting what we consider quality. Now maybe…

Nah, I’ll leave the bay once salaries drop. Not years before.

Re: GitHub Copilot X – Sign up for technical preview

#188

Post by gonehome »

bredren wrote: post #129
gonehome wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft is a so well positioned on this I think Silicon Valley has forgotten what it looks like when they don’t have a horrible CEO. When Microsoft executes well, they’re a scary force. They were exceptional under Gates and it looks like they are again. There’s a massive paradigm shift we’re just at the beginning of and Microsoft has been putting pieces in place for the last couple of years. Nadella has really turn…

If it were not for the impending headset, Apple would look a wee bit caught out as well. I suspect once Apple turns toward gen ai, all of its other advantages (infra, hw, instal base, services, etc) will propel it to forefront.

Apple has always had its own hardware based silo to some extent (excellent products and design, fully integrated).

Still, I suspect the AI stuff will be hard for them. They were first to market with Siri and it’s still trash 13yrs(?!) later. It’s always been what they’re weakest at, I’m not sure LLMs will be different for them.

The headset could still give them a nice hardware platform advantage though if that UX becomes the main new interface.

Re: GitHub Copilot X – Sign up for technical preview

#189

Post by newaccount2023 »

bredren wrote: post #129
gonehome wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft is a so well positioned on this I think Silicon Valley has forgotten what it looks like when they don’t have a horrible CEO. When Microsoft executes well, they’re a scary force. They were exceptional under Gates and it looks like they are again. There’s a massive paradigm shift we’re just at the beginning of and Microsoft has been putting pieces in place for the last couple of years. Nadella has really turn…

If it were not for the impending headset, Apple would look a wee bit caught out as well. I suspect once Apple turns toward gen ai, all of its other advantages (infra, hw, instal base, services, etc) will propel it to forefront.

for now, Apple is in a different league

if Tim Cook wants $10 bln in new profits, he can simply pass some arbitrary judgement like "the next iPhone will only be compatible with new AirPods we will introduce at the same time" and everyone will comply

Re: GitHub Copilot X – Sign up for technical preview

#190

Post by daydream »

gonehome wrote: post #58
ren_engineer wrote: post #13

Microsoft really seems to have wrapped up the developer ecosystem with VS Code and the Github acquisition combined with OpenAI. They are going to have an absurd amount of data to optimize their models thanks to that, not sure how other AI focused companies can overcome that have to wonder at what point developers remember how anti-developer Microsoft used to be and potentially move away from their ecosystem. Credit t…

Microsoft is a so well positioned on this I think Silicon Valley has forgotten what it looks like when they don’t have a horrible CEO. When Microsoft executes well, they’re a scary force. They were exceptional under Gates and it looks like they are again. There’s a massive paradigm shift we’re just at the beginning of and Microsoft has been putting pieces in place for the last couple of years. Nadella has really turn…

> When Microsoft executes well, they’re a scary force. They were exceptional under Gates and it looks like they are again.

I agree with this. And what I think is so fascinating is how much they left on the table during this very same time. Steven Sinofsky's Hardcore Software substack is an amazing read[1]. And it really shows how much they got wrong as well as how much they got right.

MS is firing on all cylinders. Both the OpenAI partnership and the GitHub acquisition are looking like genius moves right now. Google in particular should be very afraid.

[1] Though quite long. Very, very long. But it's well worth reading all of it. There's untold numbers gems in there.

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