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Ritalin Gone Wrong

nytimes.com

51–60 of 159 posts

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#51

I was interested to see that the researcher who wrote the op-ed, a psychologist based at my alma mater, has participated in some of the research projects he reviews in the op-ed. As I read the comments here, I'll be collecting ideas for questions to ask the local researcher in person as I try to learn more about ADD. I was particularly interested to see that the op-ed criticized several earlier studies for their stud…

Like many my age and younger, I was diagnosed with ADD as a child (I'm 32 now) and went through the entire gamut of meds (stimulants, tricyclics, SSRIs) before discovering that norepinephrine seems to be the culprit for me. I have a very difficult time coding when I'm off the meds (I can do it, it's just difficult to keep the data structures and control flow in my head). I took atomoxetine for several years and it worked wonders, but it caused severe side effects that I wasn't willing to put up with. I've since switched to buproprion, which isn't quite as effective, but otherwise doesn't give me any problems. The most general way I can describe the difference between being medicated and unmedicated is "sharp" and "dull", extremely so.

I have a friend that says if I can't do my job without medication, I'm in the wrong profession. He may be right, but I love working with computers, and I don't have that passion for anything else, so I'll keep taking the meds. I'm no longer interested in debating the ethics, since for me it really is the difference between high performance and average performance, and there is no reward for average.

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#52
post #19

I have a real problem labeling 10 year olds that get bored and fidgety in boring situations with having a brain disorder and giving them speed. Find me 10 successful entreprenuers and I bet I can show you 10 people who had a tough time sitting through unengaging lesson plans in school. Doesn't help with ballooning class sizes either.

This armchair criticism might apply to the hyperactivity subtype but perhaps not as well to the inattention subtype.

The general point I'm making is their personality should be embraced rather than drugged. I had an Adderal prescription for a month in college, its stronger than any other stimulant I've tried and it horrors me they give it to children.

The test they give for an ADHD diagnosis is a joke too. Do have trouble focusing in class? Ah yeah, most of engineering teachers aren't giving daily TED talks... :)

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#54
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This armchair criticism might apply to the hyperactivity subtype but perhaps not as well to the inattention subtype.

The general point I'm making is their personality should be embraced rather than drugged. I had an Adderal prescription for a month in college, its stronger than any other stimulant I've tried and it horrors me they give it to children. The test they give for an ADHD diagnosis is a joke too. Do have trouble focusing in class? Ah yeah, most of engineering teachers aren't giving daily TED talks... :)

For diagnosis, my impression for adults is that it's usually in effect a self-diagnosis with the doctor rubber-stamping the request. Some doctors are probably more free with it than others, but I haven't heard of a situation where it was more strenuous a screening than asking a series of questions, where it was very obvious which answers were the "yes, I have ADHD" answers. So basically if you believe that you have ADHD, you can get yourself a diagnosis for it.

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#55
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scary thought: Going cold turkey with coffee has had very similar effects on me (after 2 weeks of 1-2 cups a day; 2-4 shots/day). I've also had a similar feeling of deadness when I stopped eating meat, dairy and anything with additives for 6 weeks. The first week or so I was completely useless - this could have also been due to me trying to feel my way through to a balanced diet. So much of what we consume ends up ha…

The last time I got rid of coffee (back on it now), I switched to a high caffein tea and then steadily walked my way to low / no caffein teas. It is really, really hard to get going with cold drinks in a ND / MN winter.

Hot water with lemon and honey is easy and warms you up. If you feel more adventurous, non-alcoholic hot cider.

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#56
post #27

Parents should really take note of the studies and conclusions in this article. As someone diagnosed with ADHD who has tried numerous medications (Adderall regular and XR, Vyvanse, Strattera, Focalin, and Wellbutrin) I have to say I would never ever EVER allow a young child of mine to take any of them. I can't even fathom how confusing and damaging the side effects of these medications could be to the fragile psyche…

To get through college, while working, I used adderall and ritalin on and off as needed. I was floored when I first got on it, my doctor tried me on the ritalin patch at the highest dose (32 mg I think). I dropped down and was still amazed with how hard hitting this stuff was. Granted, people have different skin and uptake I am sure, but I couldn't imagine giving a kid a patch which basically made me feel like I had a 12 hour cocaine high. Yes, I plowed through work I couldn't of done in twice the time, but I was HIGH. I was able to understand how I felt, but the 12 year old that gets the same dose wouldn't...Yet their parents might think it's a wonder drug, since that kid would most likely be able to finally do their homework in one sitting.

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#57
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't personally experience all of those side effects, they just seem to be the most common based on dozens of other users of those medications I spoke with after beginning them myself. There are some other very common side effects I didn't mention as well, such as headaches/bouts of anger/crashing when the medication is wearing off each day, dehydration/drymouth, and heart palpitations or racing heartbeat. The si…

You know that anecdotal interviews are a fairly bad way to collection information, right? This is why humanity developed double-blind studies, statistics etc. We can actually quantify the probabilities of these side effects.

You know that you can't do double blind studies of stuff with such obvious effects, right? Anyone taking it instead of a sugar pill knows which pill they got.

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#58
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last time I got rid of coffee (back on it now), I switched to a high caffein tea and then steadily walked my way to low / no caffein teas. It is really, really hard to get going with cold drinks in a ND / MN winter.

Hot water with lemon and honey is easy and warms you up. If you feel more adventurous, non-alcoholic hot cider.

I'd add, cinnamon naturally "perks" one up for the most part. I used to add cinnamon to my coffee (to avoid sugar), but works as well for tea, or your hot water, lemon and honey for a non-caffeinated morning (or afternoon slog) beverage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinnamon#Medicinal_value

It has insulin "mimicking" effects, which could be part of the "boost" I feel.

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#59
post #5

I was interested to see that the researcher who wrote the op-ed, a psychologist based at my alma mater, has participated in some of the research projects he reviews in the op-ed. As I read the comments here, I'll be collecting ideas for questions to ask the local researcher in person as I try to learn more about ADD. I was particularly interested to see that the op-ed criticized several earlier studies for their stud…

I'm currently taking adult ADD meds (Adderall); it's a double edged sword, and I'd personally really prefer to find another method. The primary problem is, during any sort of transition I would be pretty useless, and I can't afford to take that long being useless with my current job. I went cold turkey from 25mg of Adderall XR daily, and for about a week and a half I was absolutely dead. I'd have a splitting headache…

I tried a few sessions of bio-feedback but quit because I got frustrated by it and not being worth the time and money.

During the intake the therapist described Ritalin as "poison". I should have probably gotten up and left right there. If you have the opinion that Ritalin is overprescribed, or that it should not be given to small children, that's all fine with me. But "poison" has a pretty clear definition, you'll find that whenever someone refers to a drug as "poison", you're dealing with pseudo-scientific quackery.

What made me quit was mostly that I couldn't find any correlation between the signals received from the electrodes and my own state of consciousness, be it more relaxed or more concentrated or alpha/beta waved, whatever.

When I watched the graphs on the monitor, I noticed a few things. There is a LOT of noise. If I'd clench my jaw, move a muscle in my neck, my ears, whatever, it'd cause an avalanche of noise, completely drowning out any possible brain signal. Ok so you sit still, you're meant to focus or relax anyhow. Except that muscles just seem to generate a whole lot more electrical signal than your brain, and every time I even blinked my eye there was a burst of noise (probably also because the eye muscle is relatively close to the electrodes). The software did nothing to filter out these noise-bursts, even though it'd have been trivial to make at least a basic attempt that would throw away the data during a burst so the other filters wouldn't trigger.

Ah, the other filters. Well, it quickly became clear I knew a lot more about DSP than this guy. He had no idea how his device operated, at least not how the signals were transformed into whatever was displayed on the screen. There's not really an excuse for this. Sure enough a surgeon might not know about the algorithms used to convert an MRI scan into a picture, but the radiologist does (at least, on some level), which is why we have radiologists.

So you know about these alpha/beta/theta/gamma brain waves right? They're at 12/10/7/3 Hz frequencies or something like that. Now I always had the idea that by this they meant some fundamental Eigen-frequency of signals in the brain, so you'd think to apply some auto-correlation to determine the base frequency and its harmonics. But instead he had a bunch of bandpass filters running concurrently being graphed through some ancient MS-DOS program with obvious leakage from one band to another and we were looking at the raw filtered signal, not even its energy and as I said there was no noise suppression.

I'd have loved to take that device home, write some code for it and see what it could detect though. Hell, even detecting muscle movements is already way cool :)

Anyway, no correspondence between my state of focus or relaxation.

Staring at a computer screen (with a game, usually one frequency band was used to control a game of some sort) for 1-2 hours per week, actively trying to relax or focus would definitely have a result of course.

Which is why I'm doing a universal yoga meditation class. Dunno if it helps with the ADD, but it can't hurt and it definitely has some other advantages (notably: posture and stress/tension). One thing I do notice, yoga works best if I haven't taken meds that day. You'd think it improves focus, but this yoga class is mainly being able to really feel your whole body and muscles should not be tense for that, but on meds I find I get way more fidgety and subconsciously re-tense every muscle I relax as my focus shifts to the next part of my body. Fortunately, noticing and being aware of such subtle effects in your body is exactly what the class it about :-)

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#60
post #51

I was interested to see that the researcher who wrote the op-ed, a psychologist based at my alma mater, has participated in some of the research projects he reviews in the op-ed. As I read the comments here, I'll be collecting ideas for questions to ask the local researcher in person as I try to learn more about ADD. I was particularly interested to see that the op-ed criticized several earlier studies for their stud…

Like many my age and younger, I was diagnosed with ADD as a child (I'm 32 now) and went through the entire gamut of meds (stimulants, tricyclics, SSRIs) before discovering that norepinephrine seems to be the culprit for me. I have a very difficult time coding when I'm off the meds (I can do it, it's just difficult to keep the data structures and control flow in my head). I took atomoxetine for several years and it wo…

> I have a friend that says if I can't do my job without medication, I'm in the wrong profession.

I hate that line of reasoning. I couldn't do my job without glasses. Does that mean I'm in the wrong profession?

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