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RNA compound and vitamin B3 found in samples from near-Earth asteroid

cnn.com

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Re: RNA compound and vitamin B3 found in samples from near-Earth asteroid

#41

Post by stonemetal12 »

Cardinal7167 wrote: post #38
coldtea wrote: post #11

> “Since the Hayabusa2 spacecraft collected two samples directly from asteroid Ryugu and delivered them to Earth in sealed capsules, contamination can be ruled out.” I seriously doubt that it could be "ruled out" just like that. For one, the spacecraft (or the empty capsules) could have been pre-contaminated before their launch. Second, the capsules could have been contaminated after arrival even if they were "sealed…

> For one, the spacecraft (or the empty capsules) could have been pre-contaminated before their launch. I had a really interesting discussion with someone who oversaw decontamination protocols and preparations for various satellites, including the JWST. The protocols they use to prep satellites for these types of missions are beyond stringent, and the chemicals they use are exotic as all hell. All this to say, contam…

Remember the faster than light neutrinos that turned out to be a loose cable? I doubt they "just forgot", but being perfect is more difficult than making a mistake somewhere in the process. Before they publish I would hope they Quadruple checked for every source of possible contamination. Instead of saying we did it right so obviously nothing went wrong.

Re: RNA compound and vitamin B3 found in samples from near-Earth asteroid

#42

Post by craftsman »

coldtea wrote: post #18
aa-jv wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> You better alert the scientists that they missed something, then! That's some serious business, they must be alerted to their failings immediately! Yes, unimaginable that scientists could have made a mistake that a layman could spot, or just said something to create good PR to their mission, even when it's inaccurate. They also never unwittingly or intentionally BS in their research papers, right? And only a collea…

I think what the other poster is trying to say is something like the following:

There was a team / teams who planned the mission, designed and built the spacecraft and its systems & instruments, designed and performed tests on the samples, analyzed the data, and published a paper with some claims. The paper outlines their methods, test results, data, and conclusions.

Now, is it okay to question anything in the paper? Yes, absolutely.

How probable is it that something in the paper is wrong or could be improved? Definitely non-zero, it happens a lot. People who understand various aspects of the instruments used, the tests, data analysis, etc, often find some minor or major flaw in scientific papers. Could it happen with this one? Yes, absolutely.

How probable is it that someone on HN--knowing that there are lots of people on HN with diverse expertise--will find something wrong with the paper, and that the substance of the flaw they found is:

> I seriously doubt that it could be "ruled out" just like that.

> For one, the spacecraft (or the empty capsules) could have been pre-contaminated before their launch.

> Second, the capsules could have been contaminated after arrival even if they were "sealed" (perhaps the seal had issues, or maybe it happened when they opened them, since one assumes they couldn't test still sealed capsules, they'd have to open them).

Non-zero, but very low. Could it happen? Yes, it could very well be that the team(s) involved did not consider that contamination could occur before or after the sample was obtained and analyzed. How likely is it? Hard to say, but if it happened, the critique would not take the form of "Hey, it could have been contaminated!" Rather, it would take the form of "I notice in the sample handling procedure that such-and-such technique was applied. Further, in the data analysis, such-and-such test was not done, therefore one could not rule out ..."

You get the idea.

Re: RNA compound and vitamin B3 found in samples from near-Earth asteroid

#43

Post by wheelerof4te »

JPLeRouzic wrote: post #6

They didn't detect RNA which would be extraordinary. What they detected is Uracil, one of the molecules that is found in RNA. They didn't found any other nucleotides. " Other DNA/RNA nucleobases were not positively identified in both the A0106 and C0107 samples. This does not necessarily exclude a possibility that those nucleobases are present in the Ryugu samples, but just they may be below the detection limit under…

I would guess that whatever organic molecule was on that asteroid, it died off from the intense radiation in space.

Re: RNA compound and vitamin B3 found in samples from near-Earth asteroid

#44

Post by b1c1jones »

wheelerof4te wrote: post #43
JPLeRouzic wrote: post #6

They didn't detect RNA which would be extraordinary. What they detected is Uracil, one of the molecules that is found in RNA. They didn't found any other nucleotides. " Other DNA/RNA nucleobases were not positively identified in both the A0106 and C0107 samples. This does not necessarily exclude a possibility that those nucleobases are present in the Ryugu samples, but just they may be below the detection limit under…

I would guess that whatever organic molecule was on that asteroid, it died off from the intense radiation in space.

Organic doesn't necessarily imply living.

Re: RNA compound and vitamin B3 found in samples from near-Earth asteroid

#45

Post by jasonlotito »

JPLeRouzic wrote: post #6

They didn't detect RNA which would be extraordinary. What they detected is Uracil, one of the molecules that is found in RNA. They didn't found any other nucleotides. " Other DNA/RNA nucleobases were not positively identified in both the A0106 and C0107 samples. This does not necessarily exclude a possibility that those nucleobases are present in the Ryugu samples, but just they may be below the detection limit under…

> They didn't detect RNA which would be extraordinary.

Correct, and they don't say that. They found an RNA compound. Uracil, one of the molecules that is found in RNA.

Not sure of the purpose of this comment to regurgitate what's found in the article itself, which goes into greater detail.

Re: RNA compound and vitamin B3 found in samples from near-Earth asteroid

#46

Post by b1c1jones »

coldtea wrote: post #11

> “Since the Hayabusa2 spacecraft collected two samples directly from asteroid Ryugu and delivered them to Earth in sealed capsules, contamination can be ruled out.” I seriously doubt that it could be "ruled out" just like that. For one, the spacecraft (or the empty capsules) could have been pre-contaminated before their launch. Second, the capsules could have been contaminated after arrival even if they were "sealed…

Google [or search engine of your choice] is your friend.

https://earth-planets-space.springeropen.com/articles/10.118...

Re: RNA compound and vitamin B3 found in samples from near-Earth asteroid

#47

Post by craftsman »

mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #40
ianai wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonetheless, the goal post to pass is the scientific process and journal article review. It’s not “someone made a mistake in a study once before so all science is ruled out” as this would tend toward. We’re not doing ourselves any good carrying around old bad behavior.

If you read my comment as implying all science is ruled out due to one example, that's very much a you problem. I said or implied no such thing. I also didn't take a stance on this research. I've yet to read the paper, and I don't read "science journalism" like TFA. But it's not like the findings are earth shattering given previous research. Therefore I lean towards optimism. I am simply saying that scepticism is war…

If your post was simply to say, "This paper could have flaws and its conclusions could be incorrect," then yes, almost all of us will agree with you. I'm not sure it's big news, however. I would guess most of us understand that scientific findings are contingent on future experiments and results.

If your post was to point out a specific flaw, e.g., that the sample could have been pre- or post-contaminated, then it falls short of anything substantive and actionable. Nobody can do anything with it. Yes, you are correct. But no, there is not anything anyone can do with the critique. If you're going to point out a flaw, it needs to be something that you, the authors, or other PIs can check, perform, etc.

Re: RNA compound and vitamin B3 found in samples from near-Earth asteroid

#48

Post by chatmasta »

jasonlotito wrote: post #45
JPLeRouzic wrote: post #6

They didn't detect RNA which would be extraordinary. What they detected is Uracil, one of the molecules that is found in RNA. They didn't found any other nucleotides. " Other DNA/RNA nucleobases were not positively identified in both the A0106 and C0107 samples. This does not necessarily exclude a possibility that those nucleobases are present in the Ryugu samples, but just they may be below the detection limit under…

> They didn't detect RNA which would be extraordinary. Correct, and they don't say that. They found an RNA compound. Uracil, one of the molecules that is found in RNA. Not sure of the purpose of this comment to regurgitate what's found in the article itself, which goes into greater detail.

As someone who reads the comments more than the articles, I always appreciate when this kind of clarification is in the comments. It's one of the best parts of HN.

Re: RNA compound and vitamin B3 found in samples from near-Earth asteroid

#50

Post by chatmasta »

aa-jv wrote: post #15
coldtea wrote: post #11

> “Since the Hayabusa2 spacecraft collected two samples directly from asteroid Ryugu and delivered them to Earth in sealed capsules, contamination can be ruled out.” I seriously doubt that it could be "ruled out" just like that. For one, the spacecraft (or the empty capsules) could have been pre-contaminated before their launch. Second, the capsules could have been contaminated after arrival even if they were "sealed…

[flagged]

It's worth noting that there are plenty of rocket scientists and brain surgeons on HN, although I don't know the professional background of the commenter to whom you're replying.
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