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Thomas Midgley Jr. invented leaded gasoline and chlorofluorocarbons

nytimes.com

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Re: Thomas Midgley Jr. invented leaded gasoline and chlorofluorocarbons

#61

Post by samtho »

Ekaros wrote: post #34
chuankl wrote: post #11

The absolute terrible thing about leaded gasoline is that they were already aware of several other additives (including ethanol, IIRC) that have the desired anti-knocking properties. But they went with tetraethyl lead anyway because it is cheaper and provided a few cents more profit per gallon. A cent was worth more back then than it does now, but still :-(

But how many gallons were sold with lead added? I would imagine that is quite substantial number, so in the end we are talking about large sums of money...

The “couple of cents” seemed like an off the cuff remark to indicate that leaded gas was less expensive than alternatives, but I would be interested in hearing about this delta as a percent rather than a fixed cost. Given inflation, gas price fluctuations, and the sheer volume in which fuel was sold, measuring it as a “couple of cents” is completely meaningless.

Re: Thomas Midgley Jr. invented leaded gasoline and chlorofluorocarbons

#62

Post by samtho »

Weneedlead wrote: post #47
olliej wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also knew it was toxic, but deliberately put on displays claiming that it wasn’t, even midgley would pour it over his hands despite knowing the danger and intentionally avoiding it in all other cases. They also used medical testing to mislead: showing people could consume it and lead wouldn’t be detected in their urine. Apparently that showed it was safe, and no one said “then where did the lead go?”. Happily he…

[flagged]

> Most people are critically malnourished, so it holds on to any that it can get.

This is not how chemistry works. The body will use (catalyze) what you give it, but the more reactive substances are used quicker and in greater abundance.

Also who are these people that are critically malnourished? In the western world at least, we have access to all the vitamins and minerals we need just by way of the food we eat even on a relatively poor diet.

Re: Thomas Midgley Jr. invented leaded gasoline and chlorofluorocarbons

#63

Post by orf »

Weneedlead wrote: post #42
noduerme wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> never get drunk psychologically What? It's hard to make heads or tails of this comment. Are you saying that asocial psychopaths wouldn't exist if we'd kept lead in gasoline? [edit] also realizing this is this account's first HN post... I probably shouldn't be responding

Yes, they never get to the stage when you talk nonsense when they drink alcohol. (they can't readily tell, it seems, they need to test you in some way) I'm saying that the majority is now psychopaths. I'm still more inclined that the drop in IQ is an artifact, but even if intelligence is improved in some way, it's useless when the person is asocial. Not my first post, not that it matters.

It’s very hard to tell the difference between both your comments and conspiratorial ramblings (psychopaths have an unnaturally high alcohol tolerance?), hence the flagging and downvoting.

It’s also hard to tell what your point actually is. I’d advise re-thinking how you structure your thoughts or writing.

Re: Thomas Midgley Jr. invented leaded gasoline and chlorofluorocarbons

#64

Post by [deleted] »

qqtt wrote: post #31
btgeekboy wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a citation for the debunking? The WA state legislature is trying to push through a bunch of unfunded mandates of dubious effectiveness on airports based on this study.

Always be skeptical of individuals who claim things are debunked without citing their sources. Also, it is true that neighborhoods near the airport not in the flight path also have higher lead levels than average, but I'm not sure how that helps the case - there is elevated lead levels near airports, which can adversely affect your health.

[deleted]

Re: Thomas Midgley Jr. invented leaded gasoline and chlorofluorocarbons

#65

Post by actionfromafar »

di4na wrote: post #41
boomboomsubban wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also were aware very early on of the health risks lead caused. Midgley himself suffered from lead poisoning. Then they poisoned the world for those few cents per gallon.

Note that despite suffering from it he kept doing stunt in public without realising it was a danger. Local rationality is a thing. It is not all a plot to suck money out. He believed his own shit.

Money tends to do that to people.

Re: Thomas Midgley Jr. invented leaded gasoline and chlorofluorocarbons

#66

Post by secretsatan »

litiholofan wrote: post #60
secretsatan wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is nothing more than a monopoly which continues to this day with DuPont, Honeywell, and Arkema at the head of it. You're just a brainless sissy. Amazing, you can't even get monopoly right

[flagged]

Found your source https://lulz.com/the-ozone-scam-and-dupont-1000-318809/

Re: Thomas Midgley Jr. invented leaded gasoline and chlorofluorocarbons

#67

Post by lysozyme »

There’s a line of thought that connects the use of leaded gasoline with US crime rates. [1]

The idea is that exposure to lead causes people to have problems that lead to violent behavior later in life. The evidence presented includes the correlation observed between the removal of lead from gasoline and a sharp fall in crime rates 20 years later.

1. https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2016/02/lead-exposur...

Re: Thomas Midgley Jr. invented leaded gasoline and chlorofluorocarbons

#68

Post by eternityforest »

Weneedlead wrote: post #47
olliej wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also knew it was toxic, but deliberately put on displays claiming that it wasn’t, even midgley would pour it over his hands despite knowing the danger and intentionally avoiding it in all other cases. They also used medical testing to mislead: showing people could consume it and lead wouldn’t be detected in their urine. Apparently that showed it was safe, and no one said “then where did the lead go?”. Happily he…

[flagged]

People didn't invent heart disease or brain damage or bleeding to death either, none of those are healthy.

The body might absorb all kinds of shit that isn't healthy, including carbon monoxide and pure americium, just like a computer holds onto malware and a lake holds onto PFAS.

Even most scientifically proven essential nutrients are poison if you have more than the optimal amount.

That's literally what getting fat is, the body holding onto things that have no benefit because of some chemical pathway left over from when we didn't have refrigerators and might need to walk for 4 days without food.

Evolution didn't give people a very effective "stop absorbing calories" function so why would we expect a "stop absorbing lead" function to be much better?

People didn't make it but people moved it where it could be taken in, and processed it into more active compounds.

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