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Thomas Midgley Jr. invented leaded gasoline and chlorofluorocarbons

nytimes.com

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Re: Thomas Midgley Jr. invented leaded gasoline and chlorofluorocarbons

#41

Post by di4na »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #16
chuankl wrote: post #11

The absolute terrible thing about leaded gasoline is that they were already aware of several other additives (including ethanol, IIRC) that have the desired anti-knocking properties. But they went with tetraethyl lead anyway because it is cheaper and provided a few cents more profit per gallon. A cent was worth more back then than it does now, but still :-(

They also were aware very early on of the health risks lead caused. Midgley himself suffered from lead poisoning. Then they poisoned the world for those few cents per gallon.

Note that despite suffering from it he kept doing stunt in public without realising it was a danger.

Local rationality is a thing. It is not all a plot to suck money out. He believed his own shit.

Re: Thomas Midgley Jr. invented leaded gasoline and chlorofluorocarbons

#42

Post by Weneedlead »

noduerme wrote: post #38
Weneedlead wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> never get drunk psychologically What? It's hard to make heads or tails of this comment. Are you saying that asocial psychopaths wouldn't exist if we'd kept lead in gasoline? [edit] also realizing this is this account's first HN post... I probably shouldn't be responding

Yes, they never get to the stage when you talk nonsense when they drink alcohol. (they can't readily tell, it seems, they need to test you in some way)

I'm saying that the majority is now psychopaths.

I'm still more inclined that the drop in IQ is an artifact, but even if intelligence is improved in some way, it's useless when the person is asocial.

Not my first post, not that it matters.

Re: Thomas Midgley Jr. invented leaded gasoline and chlorofluorocarbons

#44

Post by defrost »

litiholofan wrote: post #43

[flagged]

Wrong in so many ways, there was, of course, extensive study and dedicated satellite instrumentation looking into all the issues you raised.

eg:

> Nobody explained why the hole was in Antarctica despite almost all the CFC being produced and used in the northern hemisphere.

There is both an Artic and Antartic ozone hole, as gases eventually circulate globally both poles receive nearly the same volume of (man made) precursor chemicals .. however the Antartic is typically colder in spring and the ozone destroying reaction is tempreture sensitive.

Re: Thomas Midgley Jr. invented leaded gasoline and chlorofluorocarbons

#45

Post by prennert »

This Cautionary Tales podcast episode talks about him [0].

Both were invented in the service of DuPont. CFC at least helped making refrigeration safer and helped getting it to the masses. Leaded gasoline on the other hand was always known as a bad idea.

In both cases though, DuPont fought back hard to prevent bans of these solutions. They rather kill the planet than their profits.

Suitably enough he killed himself with another one of his inventions that used pulleys to overcome mobility issues due to his Polio infection and helped him get out of bed. I guess health and safety was really not his thing.

[0] https://timharford.com/2022/11/cautionary-tales-the-inventor...

Re: Thomas Midgley Jr. invented leaded gasoline and chlorofluorocarbons

#46

Post by litiholofan »

defrost wrote: post #44
litiholofan wrote: post #43

[flagged]

Wrong in so many ways, there was, of course, extensive study and dedicated satellite instrumentation looking into all the issues you raised. eg: > Nobody explained why the hole was in Antarctica despite almost all the CFC being produced and used in the northern hemisphere. There is both an Artic and Antartic ozone hole, as gases eventually circulate globally both poles receive nearly the same volume of (man made) pre…

[flagged]

Re: Thomas Midgley Jr. invented leaded gasoline and chlorofluorocarbons

#47

Post by Weneedlead »

olliej wrote: post #20
chuankl wrote: post #11

The absolute terrible thing about leaded gasoline is that they were already aware of several other additives (including ethanol, IIRC) that have the desired anti-knocking properties. But they went with tetraethyl lead anyway because it is cheaper and provided a few cents more profit per gallon. A cent was worth more back then than it does now, but still :-(

They also knew it was toxic, but deliberately put on displays claiming that it wasn’t, even midgley would pour it over his hands despite knowing the danger and intentionally avoiding it in all other cases. They also used medical testing to mislead: showing people could consume it and lead wouldn’t be detected in their urine. Apparently that showed it was safe, and no one said “then where did the lead go?”. Happily he…

[flagged]

Re: Thomas Midgley Jr. invented leaded gasoline and chlorofluorocarbons

#49

Post by moring »

Weneedlead wrote: post #47
olliej wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also knew it was toxic, but deliberately put on displays claiming that it wasn’t, even midgley would pour it over his hands despite knowing the danger and intentionally avoiding it in all other cases. They also used medical testing to mislead: showing people could consume it and lead wouldn’t be detected in their urine. Apparently that showed it was safe, and no one said “then where did the lead go?”. Happily he…

[flagged]

Why is that question important? It's interesting from a scientific point-of-view, but the answer doesn't change the fact that it is there.

The answer might help us predict where to find much or little of it, though.

Re: Thomas Midgley Jr. invented leaded gasoline and chlorofluorocarbons

#50

Post by swixmix »

prennert wrote: post #45

This Cautionary Tales podcast episode talks about him [0]. Both were invented in the service of DuPont. CFC at least helped making refrigeration safer and helped getting it to the masses. Leaded gasoline on the other hand was always known as a bad idea. In both cases though, DuPont fought back hard to prevent bans of these solutions. They rather kill the planet than their profits. Suitably enough he killed himself wi…

Polio was absolutely terrible for those who had it. I wouldn’t blame him for having it. Or for ending it. However, for other reasons, I agree with you.

http://acshist.scs.illinois.edu/bulletin_open_access/v31-2/v...

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