Ritalin Gone Wrong • Hacker News Board

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#11

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jan 29, 2012, 6:02 PM UTC

itmag wrote: post #3

I'd be interested in hearing what a (non-kooky) fringe scientist like Seth Roberts has to say on ADD. It always seemed weird to me that huge amounts of people should be taking Speed on a daily basis. Has there been any research into treating ADD with stuff like low-carb diets, vitamin D, limiting EMF exposure, limiting videogames, fish oil, filtering chemicals out of drinking water? I'm just throwing those out there…

[deleted]

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#12

Post by sebphfx » Sun, Jan 29, 2012, 6:02 PM UTC

itmag wrote: post #3

I'd be interested in hearing what a (non-kooky) fringe scientist like Seth Roberts has to say on ADD. It always seemed weird to me that huge amounts of people should be taking Speed on a daily basis. Has there been any research into treating ADD with stuff like low-carb diets, vitamin D, limiting EMF exposure, limiting videogames, fish oil, filtering chemicals out of drinking water? I'm just throwing those out there…

it really is Speed. I'd be curious to see the percentage of the ADD drugs that are being crushed and snorted. As a kid, we used to snort Dexedrin and Ritalin and it's called the poor man's coke. You even get a heavier crash than bad coke. The same thing is happening with prescribed opiates. More people are taking them for other reasons than for the ones they were intended for. I already know that comment is going to go at the bottom of the page since I'm talking about experience and not scientific studies,but, it's my own experiments and empirical evidence.

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#13

Post by jinushaun » Sun, Jan 29, 2012, 6:06 PM UTC

itmag wrote: post #3

I'd be interested in hearing what a (non-kooky) fringe scientist like Seth Roberts has to say on ADD. It always seemed weird to me that huge amounts of people should be taking Speed on a daily basis. Has there been any research into treating ADD with stuff like low-carb diets, vitamin D, limiting EMF exposure, limiting videogames, fish oil, filtering chemicals out of drinking water? I'm just throwing those out there…

I graduated with a degree in biochemistry hoping to get into the biotech/pharmaceutical industry, but was turned off by the emphasis on treaments instead of cures. Ritalin and Aderall seems analogous to taking pain killers to treat an open wound—masks the symptoms (pain) but doesn't address the cause (open wound).

With the explosion of ADD prescriptions, one has to wonder if our society/environment is causing this problem. Is it diet? HFCS? Modern parenting styles? The internet and information overload?

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#14

Post by _delirium » Sun, Jan 29, 2012, 6:07 PM UTC

On a more basic level before even getting to treatment, imo it'd be useful to have more studies on what the distribution of some sort of trait called "attention" is in the population to begin with, perhaps in various common situations. That might provide some sort of baseline: if, for example, 90% of people have "abnormally low" attention by some measure in some situation, then the definition of "abnormal" is probably wrong. In that case, rather than concluding that 90% of people need to be treated for a disorder, it might make more sense to conclude that the alleged "normal" characteristics are actually quite rare, demanding a characteristic that Put differently, it feels like it'd be easier to have rigorous discussions about deviations from normal mental functioning if we first had a good, data-based picture of "normal mental functioning". I've looked but have had difficulty finding any such studies.

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#15

Post by _delirium » Sun, Jan 29, 2012, 6:14 PM UTC

jinushaun wrote: post #13

itmag wrote: post #3

I'd be interested in hearing what a (non-kooky) fringe scientist like Seth Roberts has to say on ADD. It always seemed weird to me that huge amounts of people should be taking Speed on a daily basis. Has there been any research into treating ADD with stuff like low-carb diets, vitamin D, limiting EMF exposure, limiting videogames, fish oil, filtering chemicals out of drinking water? I'm just throwing those out there…

I graduated with a degree in biochemistry hoping to get into the biotech/pharmaceutical industry, but was turned off by the emphasis on treaments instead of cures. Ritalin and Aderall seems analogous to taking pain killers to treat an open wound—masks the symptoms (pain) but doesn't address the cause (open wound). With the explosion of ADD prescriptions, one has to wonder if our society/environment is causing this pr…

My cautious guess in the specific context of academia (where I am) is that unreasonable expectations may be one factor (though probably not the only one). Academics calibrate their norms by a handful of famous people who have relatively rare cognitive styles, and due to academic competitiveness there's strong pressure to match that.

There are plenty of people who are objectively normal, in the sense of having traits that fall comfortably around the median of the population, who in this context feel that they're pathologically abnormal, because they're using very high baselines: if you calibrate "normal" by the 90th percentile for some trait, and you're 50th-percentile, it's tempting to conclude that what's holding you back from being at the top of your field is a medical problem that should be treated. And maybe it still should; I'm not inherently against taking drugs to mentally enhance people's performance above normal levels (nootropics, etc.), but imo that's a separate discussion that should be had with open eyes.

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#16

Post by mynegation » Sun, Jan 29, 2012, 6:15 PM UTC

While I am not prepared to discuss specifics of Ritalin's effects, the article raises very important point: a lot of problems happening with children are due to the neglect on their parents' (or primary caregivers') side.

I've always wondered how you have to be licensed to drive any more or less complicated mechanism, but yet you can become responsible for things thousand times more complicated and important, like children, just like that.

Having children requires a lot of knowledge, but somehow our education system is not designed to prepare us to deal with that. How many parents read books on child psychology or development? The proper alignment of incentive could help here: e.g. having some kind of a test could be a prerequisite for getting children-related tax credits and benefits.

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#17

Post by trotsky » Sun, Jan 29, 2012, 6:16 PM UTC

When Sroufe suggests the brain disorder known as ADHD may simply be the result of environment without providing a bit of supporting evidence, he ignores mountains of data that show strongly correlated multi-generational symptoms even when there was little or no contact. There is a reason science doesn't get presented on opinion pages. Trying to convince parents that it may not be a real disorder, or may not be developmental, or that drugs are ineffective does a serious disservice to the diagnosed. Stimulant drugs are unlikely to be the end all and be all for ADHD treatment, but they are currently the best we have and they've been shown again and again to provide significant benefit.

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#18

Post by jdefr89 » Sun, Jan 29, 2012, 6:29 PM UTC

I am currently on two medications. VyVanse for ADD and Anafranil for OCD. As far as effectiveness, yes the medication is helpful at the beginning. However, after being on it for two years the effect of the drugs wear off and you end up doubling your dose. That seems to be the pattern with all the medications I take, even those not concerned with ADD. Honestly I really improve my productivity through therapy related techniques; meditation, therapist, developing my focus muscle.

Strangely, I don't have attention problems when it comes to the things I have interest in such as coding and computer science.

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#19

Post by hop » Sun, Jan 29, 2012, 6:35 PM UTC

I have a real problem labeling 10 year olds that get bored and fidgety in boring situations with having a brain disorder and giving them speed.

Find me 10 successful entreprenuers and I bet I can show you 10 people who had a tough time sitting through unengaging lesson plans in school. Doesn't help with ballooning class sizes either.

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#20

Post by sek » Sun, Jan 29, 2012, 6:41 PM UTC

So Ritalin is just a usual mind boosting drug, it has rebound effects and people develop a tolerance.

Like cocaine, MDMA, ephedrine and meth. It differs in it's euphoric and adverse effects, but the positive influence is not permanent.

Not a single drug can help you in the long term, you have to develop the abilities yourself. These drugs have the opposite effect, because as long as you take them you don't evolve. The worst thing is when you get used taking this stuff. You give up faster and think you are unable to deal with it yourself, what leads very fast to an addiction.

So many of my fellow students are taking drugs now for learning, especially Ritalin (but also the other stuff i mentioned earlier). I tried Ritalin once and the results were impressive, but i always had a bad feeling about this. This article proves my concerns right, Ritalin is not without downsides.