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Google was beloved as an employer for years. Then it laid off thousands by email

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Re: Google was beloved as an employer for years. Then it laid off thousands by email

#91

Post by cyberlurker »

Animats wrote: post #69
drstewart wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the same thing is happening all over tech - go down to a reduced staff of essential contributors and re-hire later for much lower comp If supply and demand stay the same, then why do you think the price will change?

>If supply and demand stay the same, then why do you think the price will change? Fear. Much of this layoff activity is intended to induce fear. Employees were getting too uppity. Talking back to management. Doing side projects. Talking with each other about wages and working conditions. Even forming unions. That had to be stopped. "A touch of the lash will keep them in line."

I suspect this was not the main reason for the layoffs. But whether it was the intention or not, it definitely is a powerful psychological tool in negotiations during a time when many employees were demanding more and more.

Re: Google was beloved as an employer for years. Then it laid off thousands by email

#92

Post by deltree7 »

optymizer wrote: post #83
deltree7 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't worry, you'll never get into FANG companies.

What a mean thing to say to someone. I've been telling people the exact opposite for years - with enough time and motivation, anyone can get into FAANG companies, it's just a question of how much time and energy you want to dedicate to that. Contrast this with becoming an astronaut or a gymnast, or a tennis player, or anything that requires you to acquire physical skills starting at a very early age and do it for dec…

I always encourage people who want to join FANG companies.

OP is the typical 'sour grapes' dissing on FANG. Why would I want them to work for FANG, if they don't appreciate it?

You have to be hungry for it to want it. They are millions of people who are grateful to work for FANG and I'll absolutely help them

Re: Google was beloved as an employer for years. Then it laid off thousands by email

#93

Post by randgoog »

turdprincess wrote: post #26
costanzaDynasty wrote: post #21

I may be a very basic software engineer with neither high YOE or high quality skills but what would I get excited about from a FAANG job nowadays? These companies that I've used everyday for nearing 2 decades from even a user perspective have become stale. Mountains of money and the best talent and even simple issues that have lingered for years are not fixed in favor of big ideas that no one wants.

You get excited for one reason and one reason only - the money. FAANG jobs pay between double and triple of normal software gigs. Some folks want to optimize for interesting work, or groundbreaking products or autonomy. Thats cool - you might not find that at a FAANG. Some folks optimize for the biggest paycheck. For that its basically two options - FAANG (and adjacent) or High Frequency Trading. To each their own!

There are other reasons too like scale. Obviously not everyone can work on those types of projects but few companies can claim their engineers' code will affect a billion users for example. At that scale, the problems that need to be solved can be interesting even if they're trivial for a smaller set of users.

Re: Google was beloved as an employer for years. Then it laid off thousands by email

#94

Post by 908B64B197 »

pwinnski wrote: post #13
SQueeeeeL wrote: post #2

Was Google really a beloved employer? I feel like that was vapor marketing hype most real people saw through as bs, you'd pretty much see constant stories of overwork and toxic teams run by incompetent "project managers" just like every other overvalued Silicon Valley FAANG shop

At Google, developers were the product, not overhead. As such, they were supported lavishly, with meals and massages, at a level not previously seen, at least not in career available to people who weren't fifth-generation Ivy grads. And the pay, total comp is still trumpeted here at HN as among the highest around. Sure, a lot of people saw those perks as being aimed a particular demographic: young people without atta…

> Sure, a lot of people saw those perks as being aimed a particular demographic: young people without attachments who were willing to spend nearly 168 hours each week on site. And a lot of us saw the selection of perks as those most likely to attract that demographic.

It reflects the demographics of the early employees and founders.

Re: Google was beloved as an employer for years. Then it laid off thousands by email

#95

Post by vineyardmike »

newaccount2023 wrote: post #75
vineyardmike wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think people were fools for falling in love with their employer. Naive maybe. But Google was really nice to employees and (intentionally) made it easy to forget you were a number in the capitalist machine. They listened and responded to employees, they made work more comfortable and easy with perks, and they regularly changed to stay up to date on what helped employees. > ...and hopefully no one is naive enou…

> I haven’t seen it talked about anywhere. I’m an ex-googler from layoffs Why would you hear about a confidential layoff plan??

People have been notified about their “delayed exit”. Like you get an email that says “your job ends in October” type of notice.

It’s not confidential, afaik, since people were told about it. I’m surprised no one offers up their status as part of it in discussions.

Re: Google was beloved as an employer for years. Then it laid off thousands by email

#96

Post by scarmig »

super256 wrote: post #57
aix1 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Overwork? Toxic teams? Project managers running teams? I've been at Google for a very long time, in quite a few orgs, and none of those things ring any bells. (Some probably exist in some pockets, though the last one sounds particularly implausible. It's just not how Google job ladders and the management structure work.) Now, I have to admit to having not read the article, but the headline does resonate. I've spoken…

> Overwork? I don't know anyone working at Google, nor anyone who worked at Google in the past (except a single intern). Hell, I don't even live anywhere near a Google campus! But I always assumed that Google wants you to spend your whole day there, from morning until evening. Because big tech is usually implicitly aiming at that. - Serve three major meals a day, + you can bring your dog to your office, which elimina…

> I don't know anyone working at Google, nor anyone who worked at Google in the past (except a single intern). Hell, I don't even live anywhere near a Google campus!

I did a couple year stint at Google, and I also didn't know anyone who worked there at all.

Re: Google was beloved as an employer for years. Then it laid off thousands by email

#97

Post by jchw »

super256 wrote: post #86
jchw wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked at Google for three years. It was a great experience and I mainly left because I had grown accustomed to remote work and was planning on moving back to live closer to family after having a falling out with the bay area. I do get the impression that people have had vastly differing experiences at Google, but the culture was very laid back. Deadline pressure existed, but ultimately it never felt that bad: if w…

First: Thank you for sharing your experience! But I have one question, I'd be glad to get some clarification. > I'm pretty sure once you're L4 or so you can pretty much coast. I heard a similar thing when I was at Google, but knew of many counter examples within my circle of coworkers. Do you mean that there are employees who were below L4 and have not been promoted in the past two years? Or do you mean that you know…

I am not sure if it is ladder-dependent but yes, you can stay at L3 for longer without getting fired. Not sure if there's actually a set limit anywhere, and I suspect it's more of a rule of thumb.

Re: Google was beloved as an employer for years. Then it laid off thousands by email

#98

Post by holografix »

mingus88 wrote: post #8
SQueeeeeL wrote: post #2

Was Google really a beloved employer? I feel like that was vapor marketing hype most real people saw through as bs, you'd pretty much see constant stories of overwork and toxic teams run by incompetent "project managers" just like every other overvalued Silicon Valley FAANG shop

Before the doubleclick merger, Google was absolutely the ideal place to work as an engineer. I feel that perhaps after 2007 a lot of Google's reputation was still held up by what the culture was like in the years surrounding their IPO. But of course, this is ancient tech history. I haven't entertained a Google recruiter in probably a decade now.

From the lofty heights of your high horse I doubt anyone on earth would even hear you and run risk of being “entertained” by you.

Re: Google was beloved as an employer for years. Then it laid off thousands by email

#99

Post by Yoric »

linguae wrote: post #55
SQueeeeeL wrote: post #2

Was Google really a beloved employer? I feel like that was vapor marketing hype most real people saw through as bs, you'd pretty much see constant stories of overwork and toxic teams run by incompetent "project managers" just like every other overvalued Silicon Valley FAANG shop

(Disclaimer: I was a software engineering intern at Google during the summers of 2013 and 2014.) In the 2000s and the first half of the 2010s, Google felt like the dream place to work. Yes, a lot has been said about the perks and the generous pay, but another thing that made Google appealing was its cutting edge projects. I was a huge fan of Google Inbox (sadly long discontinued). As a graduate student researching st…

If you find such a place, don't hesitate to spread the word :)

Re: Google was beloved as an employer for years. Then it laid off thousands by email

#100

Post by Yoric »

champagnepapi wrote: post #34
turdprincess wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You get excited for one reason and one reason only - the money. FAANG jobs pay between double and triple of normal software gigs. Some folks want to optimize for interesting work, or groundbreaking products or autonomy. Thats cool - you might not find that at a FAANG. Some folks optimize for the biggest paycheck. For that its basically two options - FAANG (and adjacent) or High Frequency Trading. To each their own!

How does one get into HFT?

Learn Rust, C++, Haskell or OCaml. Or get a PhD in mathematics or physics. Other languages or domains might work, too.
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